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  1. #21
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    For the sake of discussion, I'll play the devils advocate here:

    Why do we need the govt to issue our drivers licenses anyway? Why can't we all just drive on the road freely and maybe pay some sort of yearly fee to build and maintain the roads?

  2. #22
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    For the sake of discussion, I'll play the devils advocate here:

    Why do we need the govt to issue our drivers licenses anyway? Why can't we all just drive on the road freely and maybe pay some sort of yearly fee to build and maintain the roads?
    You're absolutely free to drive your car without any sort of regulation. Driving your car is a right. A drivers' license is not a license to drive a car. However, it is a license to use the public roads. Through legislation, we've decided that using the public roads is a privilege. The reason for this is that the concentration of drivers on the public roads constitutes a potentially dangerous environment for the public as a whole. Consequently, governments license drivers to use the public roads by determining a set standard which all drivers must adhere to. The intention is to limit the potentially dangerous situations a driver may face on the public roads.

    If you do not have these standards, it becomes much more difficult to hold egregious offenders of others' rights accountable in regard to traffic safety. For example, the offense of reckless driving: without licensing, why does the state get to decide what constitutes "reckless"? Does this follow a standard of recklessness previously defined within the case law? Is it even constitutional to have such a broad and vague standard? If there is an accident, isn't it overstepping the state's bounds to enact criminal penalties on something that on the surface appears to be a purely tort-based issue (unintentional destruction of property and injury have very rarely been defined as criminal)?

    With a license, you exchange your rights to those questions for the ability to use the public roads (owned by the government). Not only that, but you can be assured that everyone else has, and that a consistent level of enforcement will be in place.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I dunno about the consistent level of enforcement. Actually, I think I was wrongly racially profiled. I recently had my very thick hair cornrowed and cowrie shells put on the ends. From behind, I looked like a black woman. The cop almost fell out when I handed him my license, and didn't believe it was me at first. I really think I got pulled over just to mess with me.

  4. #24
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I dunno about the consistent level of enforcement. Actually, I think I was wrongly racially profiled. I recently had my very thick hair cornrowed and cowrie shells put on the ends. From behind, I looked like a black woman. The cop almost fell out when I handed him my license, and didn't believe it was me at first. I really think I got pulled over just to mess with me.
    Unfortunately, the theory is far from the reality.

  5. #25
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    get in contact with local elected representatives to see about ironing out some of this shit and getting your money back.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I did, actually. I started with the governor's office and just kept getting transferred around until somebody knew what to do, and they hooked me up with the Indentity Review branch, and I was on the phone with them for a long time and I faxed them all my documents. I just got a letter of approval from Richmond DMV headquarters via fax today. I'm told if I go either Thursday or Saturday to this one specific DMV branch, to Window 16, and ask for Mrs. So and So, she can help me, as long as I bring the documents that are listed on the approval letter (which I have). So I will be there then, and we'll see what happens.

    I think I will have to pay another fee. But at this point, I just want my legal status in the United States and a proper ID. I'll worry about the money later. As long as I have it, I'll pay whatever they ask.

    One of the attorneys I work for advised me as soon as I get my license back, to get a passport, because that is the ultimate proof of citizenship.

    So y'all, get passports. It's worth it just in case you ever lose your license or put it through the washer or have an administrative screw up happen to you like it happened to me.

    Meanwhile, the bus and the subway have not been entirely bad, and today I picked up one of the Spanish newspapers somebody left on the seat, and I read enough Spanish to understand the article about these families whose belongings were destroyed when the apartment they lived in had a fire, and the apartment owners razed the building before letting the people come back to salvage what possessions they could, so these people are on the street with nothing. So I told people on the bus about it and some of them took down the phone number to call if you wanted to help, and I'm going to try to get them a pro bono attorney and motivate people to get them clothes and food, etc. They think they're being treated this way because they're Mexican. I don't think so. I think they're being treated that way because the people treating them that way are jerks. So I hope if enough people rally to help them, maybe it will help to keep the defensive racism from sticking and growing.

    So it's not all bad.

  7. #27
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I did, actually. I started with the governor's office and just kept getting transferred around until somebody knew what to do, and they hooked me up with the Indentity Review branch, and I was on the phone with them for a long time and I faxed them all my documents. I just got a letter of approval from Richmond DMV headquarters via fax today. I'm told if I go either Thursday or Saturday to this one specific DMV branch, to Window 16, and ask for Mrs. So and So, she can help me, as long as I bring the documents that are listed on the approval letter (which I have). So I will be there then, and we'll see what happens.

    I think I will have to pay another fee. But at this point, I just want my legal status in the United States and a proper ID. I'll worry about the money later. As long as I have it, I'll pay whatever they ask.

    One of the attorneys I work for advised me as soon as I get my license back, to get a passport, because that is the ultimate proof of citizenship.

    So y'all, get passports. It's worth it just in case you ever lose your license or put it through the washer or have an administrative screw up happen to you like it happened to me.

    Meanwhile, the bus and the subway have not been entirely bad, and today I picked up one of the Spanish newspapers somebody left on the seat, and I read enough Spanish to understand the article about these families whose belongings were destroyed when the apartment they lived in had a fire, and the apartment owners razed the building before letting the people come back to salvage what possessions they could, so these people are on the street with nothing. So I told people on the bus about it and some of them took down the phone number to call if you wanted to help, and I'm going to try to get them a pro bono attorney and motivate people to get them clothes and food, etc. They think they're being treated this way because they're Mexican. I don't think so. I think they're being treated that way because the people treating them that way are jerks. So I hope if enough people rally to help them, maybe it will help to keep the defensive racism from sticking and growing.

    So it's not all bad.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    My driver's license was suspended several years ago from a similar situation. The state of Missouri had decided to request proof of insurance randomly through the mail (at least that was the explanation given to me). The year this happened, I moved twice, so I never got the letter that was sent to me. Since I didn't respond, my driver's license was automatically suspended. I didn't find out until I was pulled over. In Missouri, driving with a suspended license will get you arrested. Of course, the cop wrote me a ticket for driving with a suspended license (after arresting me). Even though I could prove I had insurance continuously, I still had to pay a $500 fine to not have the ticket show up on my driving record (so my insurance rates wouldn't go up).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #29
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm a little lawyer minded on this, I'd sue their asses to kingdom come and back for making me pay for their error.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    lower level (local) elected officials might be more helpful than the governor. pick one you might actually have a shot at meeting.

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