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  1. #11
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    While Calfornians pay so much in federal taxes, why do we have one of the lowest rates of police per capita, teachers per capita, firemen per capita, etc...?

    Total Teachers (per Capita) > Elementary & Secondary statistics - states compared - StateMaster

    California already has one of the LOWEST teachers per capita out of any state.

    Meaning we spend less on teachers per tax paying citizen than most other states.

    Even though we PAY MORE PER PERSON in federal taxes. We get LESS federal money PER PERSON than other states.

    Does it make any sense that California pays so much in taxes, yet has one of the LOWEST TEACHERS PER CAPITA out of any state?

    While California can support the rest of the country during prosperous times, this economic downturn is too much for Califas to handle this time. Considering how much California supported the rest of the US during good and normal times, this economic downturn which is worse in California than other states is too much. A federal bailout is justified.
    What does federal tax money have to do with schools? The federal government is not the source of funding for public education.

    Regarding your opinion that the federal government should bail out California...fuck no! Imagine that kind of precedent that would set. Talk about a moral hazard.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #12
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Ok people. If Cali gets bailed out, it will need to be bailed out again. A bailout for Cali is not a bailout for Cali. It is a bailout for special interests like Risen wrote...UNIONS. That is the reason they need a bailout in the first place. It's just like GM. Do we only have a 5 sec attention span? Before GM was bailed out, the loud excuse was that they will have to go into bankruptcy unless they get a bailout. What happened? They went into bankruptcy. Who was bailed out? UNIONS. GM will soon ask for another bailout once those pensions run out yet again. Especially being a much smaller company now, they will not be able to sustain those pensions even sooner. We all remember all those job cuts GM would have to make if they didn't get a bailout....look what happened.

    Back to Cali. Their essentials are more than covered. What ends up cutting them are their assinine priorities that give useless unproductive crap more priority than their essentials. Look at a child over there and tell them that someones pension and a-holes in the school board and teachers union are more important than the child you are looking at or her/his teacher. Priorities Calicans priorities. All of which Risen wrote. It's all there, it's just a matter of admitting it to yourself individually. And don't think for a second Cali gets less fed money per person. Just look at their energy grid.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  3. #13
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    The article mentions a multitude of factors that contribute to the current failed economy but it is written in such inflammatory language its arguments are weakened.

    I think it also fails to mention one of the biggest reasons for California's economic collapse: privatization of public utility infrastructure, mainly electrical grids and natural gas. One of the principal offenders: Enron. Their ruthless manipulation of creating false shortages (blackouts) resulted in extraordinary profits of billions of dollars.

    Similar economic collapses or crises have happened throughout the world with privatization and deregulation playing a large part. The Shock Doctrine is very illuminating in pointing out that a humanitarian crisis often has its roots in an economic crisis: Chile, Argentina, Ghana, Bolivia, Indonesia, Russia, Poland, South Africa and on and on.
    Last edited by statuesquechica; 07-13-2009 at 09:20 PM. Reason: spelling
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

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  4. #14
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    I think Risen should run for governor
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  5. #15
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    Similar economic collapses or crises have happened throughout the world with privatization and deregulation playing a large part. The Shock Doctrine is very illuminating in pointing out that a humanitarian crisis often has its roots in an economic crisis: Chile, Argentina, Ghana, Bolivia, Indonesia, Russia, Poland, South Africa and on and on.
    Even more economic collapses have come about as a result of government involvement-the trick is to gradually arrive at the right balance (all else being equal, the right balance is FAR closer to the free market than the statist model), under evolving exigent conditions (including experience with formal institutions conducive to the free market and cultural readiness for the same). I would in turn reccommend that you read the books and research articles by William Easterly for a better understanding of this dynamic.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    "sensationalize" If you mean call it out for what it is, then yes. What's wrong with that? I do it all the time with people I feel are stupid or don't know wtf they're talking about.
    You can call something out in a variety of ways. Having to emotionally charge your text for weight because you think that your audience (us!) is stupid is perhaps the absolute worst way to try reaching those who would otherwise give a more neutral perspective some consideration.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Isnt Arnie a republican? I heard he was going to govern right of centre, keynesian he's not.

    Cut all the pensions and labour over heads of public services and those tax expenses re-emerge in another shape or form, when is that going to dawn on conservatives?

    Generally I think its better if taxes support people to work rather than do nothing (unless the link between income and work is going to be broken altogether with some sort of citizens income scheme but that's a seperate topic) or lead a destitute existence in which they cant even be relied upon to act as consumers circulating money in the economy, stimulating growth.

  8. #18
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    California is 23rd as far as education spending by pupil is concerned. Do you know who is first (by a large margin)? Washington D.C. The quality of public education in that city is notoriously bad...
    well I guess teachers per capita, california is 46th. I guess buildings cost more in california or something then...

    And if you resent that your state subsidizes other states, then maybe you should actively oppose politicians who support policies in favor of nationally centralized redistribution of wealth, and start supporting politicians in favor of federalism.

    nationally centralized redistribution of wealth = federalism.

    they are one and the same.

  9. #19
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    What does federal tax money have to do with schools? The federal government is not the source of funding for public education.

    Regarding your opinion that the federal government should bail out California...fuck no! Imagine that kind of precedent that would set. Talk about a moral hazard.
    Since enactment, Congress increased federal funding of education, from $42.2 billion in 2001 to $54.4 billion in 2007. No Child Left Behind received a 40.4% increase from $17.4 billion in 2001 to $24.4 billion. The funding for reading quadrupled from $286 million in 2001 to $1.2 billion. [8]
    in the end, allocating money is just about priority. its all the same big pot.

  10. #20
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Lateralus: "What does federal tax money have to do with schools? The federal government is not the source of funding for public education."

    Having been a former teacher, most public schools do receive federal funding for a variety of school programs, mainly to subsidize school lunch programs. They can choose to opt out, but that is rare.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

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