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View Poll Results: Should the United States move towards providing universal health care?

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  • Yes

    47 62.67%
  • No

    28 37.33%
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  1. #31
    . Blank's Avatar
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    I haven't read all of this thread, and while you all make good opinions, I think it's pretty much a moot point as it is right now.

    We funnel cash into the medical field through our taxes and social security and all that jazz. These funds go into building hospitals and stuff already. Most of our problem tends to come from funneling our money into HMOs and pharmaceutical companies. Their goals aren't to provide healthcare--it's to make a profit. Ideally, having universal healthcare would cut out the middle man and the healthcare industry would be non-profitable. The government would control drug companies and would stop screwing people because they literally didn't dot all their I's and J's or cross their T's and X's on their health insurance forms. We'd stop paying CEOs of these companies millions of dollars in bonuses for no reason and people would get the healthcare they deserve.

    I also don't see why there can't be some free-market clinics so that rich people or whatever can get the healthcare they want and to stop opponents from bitching about how they'll have to wait months before seeing a doctor.
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  2. #32
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The poll just signifies that it will likely have the support to happen. Wasn't trying to make an argument for or against just yet.
    People want free things?

    GROUNDBREAKING!

    Anyways, here's a Denver Post article I found written by a Canadian, detailing and debunking some myths about their healthcare that I found interesting.

    Debunking Canadian health care myths - The Denver Post



  3. #33
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Okay, the US can't even afford what they already have, so how do they want to implement a whole new system? What would they do with the current HMO bureaucracy? Is it even effective?

    In Germany, it works (sort of) but in the US? Not in the short term...
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  4. #34
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    people pay for their own food, their own water, their own shelter. these items are needed to live. should the government now provide these for us with tax dollars just to alleviate the stress of worrying about how to pay for them. how is healthcare different?

    if your house burns down, gets flooded or destroyed by a tornado, you are, without insurance, in the hole for several hundred thousand dollars. if you are robbed of all your possesions, without insurance, you are in the hole for whatever your possessions were worth. how is health care and health insurance different?

    also, whoever said healthcare is rationed as it is now was right. it is rationed RATIONALLY according to those who have the means to pay for it. if i couldn't afford my next meal, does that mean the government should take pity on me and provide for all my food for me?
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  5. #35
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    if your house burns down, gets flooded or destroyed by a tornado, you are, without insurance, in the hole for several hundred thousand dollars. if you are robbed of all your possesions, without insurance, you are in the hole for whatever your possessions were worth. how is health care and health insurance different?
    Health care *is* different. One major reason is that health care, when properly distributed isn't only about taking care of catastrophic "surprise" sorts of things. In that respect, it's not even really (only) insurance. It's about regular checkups, catching problems and treating them *before* they become major, life-threatening conditions (note that it's cheaper when done this way, too). Also - it's health. Get robbed, have your house ripped apart by a tornado - by definition, if you still have your health, you can at least work towards rebuilding your life. Lose your health, and it's increasingly difficult to do so. A nice house or belongings are, when it comes down to it, luxuries. Health isn't (or shouldn't be).

    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    also, whoever said healthcare is rationed as it is now was right. it is rationed RATIONALLY according to those who have the means to pay for it. if i couldn't afford my next meal, does that mean the government should take pity on me and provide for all my food for me?
    Would you prefer your fellow citizens to just let you starve in the gutter, maybe stopping to give you a hearty "sucks to be you, deadbeat" as you try to explain the circumstances that put you in that situation? Would you say the same if it were your child or parent unable to pay for food? Sure, there are people who don't pull their weight out of simple selfishness - but I think you'll find a tragic story at the heart of most of those circumstances - and are we so devoid of compassion that we want to be the sort of people who say "too bad, you're not wealthy enough to live"? Do you believe that the sum total of someone's worth to society is in how much they can pay?

    Also, don't forget that often, people who get into financial trouble have those issues *because* they get sick. Their "insurance" can't (or actually, "won't") cover the expenses, and they run into a downward spiral of increasing financial difficulties. Do we let the "health industry" bleed them dry, and then let them die or suffer for as long as they last?

    I think it's a mistake to confuse rational allotment of health care resources for a high level of financial resources. The problem with the current system is that it values profit over the health of our citizens. It's not even more efficient (financially), and it doesn't provide better care for those who are covered. Health care programs in other nations (Jock's link is pretty normal for the ones I've read) costs less, covers more people, and provides better service and outcomes while giving the people the freedom to not have their health tied to the whim of their employer.

    Just what's the downside here? Invocation of some sort of "government is bad" boogeyman seems to be the usual response (or the amusing "insurance companies couldn't compete with a more efficient government program" - isn't that the point?). And government is you, and me, and your neighbor, *and* your elected officials. As long as that lasts (another discussion topic), it will always be (in theory) accountable to everyone. No profit-driven corporation ever has been, or will be - it's not the point of their existence. Government isn't the answer to everything. But for some things, it is. I think that health care is one of them.
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  6. #36
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    They should at least try

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post


    Would you prefer your fellow citizens to just let you starve in the gutter, ...
    If they believe in man made global warming... then sure . Otherwise, I think you completely misunderstand the issue, among many things.

  8. #38
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    People want free things?

    GROUNDBREAKING!
    Well, publicly funded things. The poll also found most would be willing to pay higher taxes for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    but I'm afraid my belief simply boils down to this: big government bad, small government good.
    If only things were this simple. These days, we have big pharma and big insurance, which are skyrocketing cost and making businesses go bankrupt. Sometimes our government has to step in.

  9. #39
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    If they believe in man made global warming... then sure . Otherwise, I think you completely misunderstand the issue, among many things.
    Well, I think precisely the same about you, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    Well, I think precisely the same about you, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
    Sounds like perfect Darwinism to me. Let all of the idiots starve if they can't find a way to fend for themselves, and let the smart ones prosper. Jeez, I never knew you were so agreeable .

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