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View Poll Results: Should the United States move towards providing universal health care?

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  • Yes

    47 62.67%
  • No

    28 37.33%
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  1. #141
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Has anyone considered that between Federal income tax, state income tax, municipal taxes, county taxes, special district (school) taxes, and fees for titles, registrations, licenses, etc. that Americans already are paying 50% of their salaries in taxes, or damn near close to it?

    Seriously. We're paying that much now, and outside of the world's most bad ass military, we have shit to show for it. No one can guarantee that social security will be solvent when we retire. No one can guarantee that Medicare will be worth a shit 30 years from now. Except for a great military, U.S. citizens aren't guaranteed shit for the huge contributions they make to the (several and duplicative) governments they fund.

    Bottom line is this, as a U.S. citizen, unless you are an elite who is benefitting from the revenues of a huge government contract, or a very poor person who is getting benefits from the system, you are getting ass raped.
    Precisely. Now add to this the fact that this same government is going to be taking more money and running your health care. I trust the German government (sort of, kind of, well, a little bit) but not the American one.

    If they do it effectively, fine. But please don't think for one second they will get rid of the crap and do the right thing for the American people out of their own goodness of their hearts.
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  2. #142
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Has anyone considered that between Federal income tax, state income tax, municipal taxes, county taxes, special district (school) taxes, and fees for titles, registrations, licenses, etc. that Americans already are paying 50% of their salaries in taxes, or damn near close to it?

    Seriously. We're paying that much now, and outside of the world's most bad ass military, we have shit to show for it. No one can guarantee that social security will be solvent when we retire. No one can guarantee that Medicare will be worth a shit 30 years from now. Except for a great military, U.S. citizens aren't guaranteed shit for the huge contributions they make to the (several and duplicative) governments they fund.
    Theoretically, in accounting for the cost of UHC, we can subtract some of these expenses, too. I know the suggestion is so contraversial that it probably wouldn't fly, but if we really built a shiny UHC system from the bottom up, we wouldn't need medicare, medicaid, the verteran's health administration, and a number of other programs that all exist to provide different, miniature healthcare systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Bottom line is this, as a U.S. citizen, unless you are an elite who is benefitting from the revenues of a huge government contract, or a very poor person who is getting benefits from the system, you are getting ass raped.
    Yes, statistics show, are path has been one of destroying the middle class. And that's quite frightening. The middle class is the fulcrum of democracy.
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  3. #143
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Has anyone considered that between Federal income tax, state income tax, municipal taxes, county taxes, special district (school) taxes, and fees for titles, registrations, licenses, etc. that Americans already are paying 50% of their salaries in taxes, or damn near close to it?

    Seriously. We're paying that much now, and outside of the world's most bad ass military, we have shit to show for it. No one can guarantee that social security will be solvent when we retire. No one can guarantee that Medicare will be worth a shit 30 years from now. Except for a great military, U.S. citizens aren't guaranteed shit for the huge contributions they make to the (several and duplicative) governments they fund.

    Bottom line is this, as a U.S. citizen, unless you are an elite who is benefitting from the revenues of a huge government contract, or a very poor person who is getting benefits from the system, you are getting ass raped.
    Yep. We need to start demanding policy that serves us with the amount of taxes we spend. If anyone wants to bitch about a "big government", well, I'm paying for a "big government", so I might as well see some positive effects from that government. No, flashier ways of killing people do not fall within this category.

  4. #144
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Yep. We need to start demanding policy that serves us with the amount of taxes we spend. If anyone wants to bitch about a "big government", well, I'm paying for a "big government", so I might as well see some positive effects from that government. No, flashier ways of killing people do not fall within this category.
    That's what I'm saying. UHC would be a great idea if the government cut the crap and focused on the important stuff, but when is that going to happen?
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  5. #145
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Precisely. Now add to this the fact that this same government is going to be taking more money and running your health care. I trust the German government (sort of, kind of, well, a little bit) but not the American one.

    If they do it effectively, fine. But please don't think for one second they will get rid of the crap and do the right thing for the American people out of their own goodness of their hearts.
    I trust no government.

    "The people of the world have more in common with each other, than their own government. The governments of the world have more in common with each other than their own citizens."

    Unfortunatley, due to human nature being what it is, the best I can venture to say with regarding to the concept of "trust" of a government, is one that (1) has REAL checks and balances in place, (2) is AUTHENTICALLY transparent in its operations, and (3) is staffed by competent people and not political yes-men types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Theoretically, in accounting for the cost of UHC, we can subtract some of these expenses, too. I know the suggestion is so contraversial that it probably wouldn't fly, but if we really built a shiny UHC system from the bottom up, we wouldn't need medicare, medicaid, the verteran's health administration, and a number of other programs that all exist to provide different, miniature healthcare systems.
    Yes, I agree, some costs would "cancel each other out" as redundant programs collapsed into the functional universal entity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes, statistics show, are path has been one of destroying the middle class. And that's quite frightening. The middle class is the fulcrum of democracy.
    Yup. Get rich, or get poor as quick as you can, otherwise, spread your cheeks, the budget has been cut, so there's no lube today. :horor:

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Yep. We need to start demanding policy that serves us with the amount of taxes we spend. If anyone wants to bitch about a "big government", well, I'm paying for a "big government", so I might as well see some positive effects from that government. No, flashier ways of killing people do not fall within this category.
    That's a damn good statement. I too doubt that if people were asked what results they wished to see realized in the operations of the (big) government they are being taxed by would state "I want to know when I sleep at night that my government has the flashiest ways of killing people, PERIOD."
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  6. #146
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    That's what I'm saying. UHC would be a great idea if the government cut the crap and focused on the important stuff, but when is that going to happen?
    The first step is full, exclusive public financing of campaigns.

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