User Tag List

First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 122

  1. #71
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    6,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    No I think intellectual property matters. I like commercial business rights and trademarks. But to assert control against sharing intangible items like sound at the cost of compromising internet standards? I don't support that. We both agree that it's unenforceable without creating drastic policies we both are against right?
    Yes--but I do think it's up to the user to realize that they have some responsibility, too. I don't agree with using strongarm tactics to prevent filesharing, but I do think that this generation needs to think a little harder about intellectual property and policing themselves.
    Something Witty

  2. #72
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yes--but I do think it's up to the user to realize that they have some responsibility, too. I don't agree with using strongarm tactics to prevent filesharing, but I do think that this generation needs to think a little harder about intellectual property and policing themselves.
    Sounds like someone isn't a member of Demonoid.com (there's open registration on Fridays)

  3. #73
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ?
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    780

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Sounds like someone isn't a member of Demonoid.com (there's open registration on Fridays)
    :rolli: I'm happy with my real private tracker, thank you.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
    Ti
    = Ne > Ni > Fi > Te > Se > Fe > Si INTP (I/PNT) 5w4

  4. #74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    No I think intellectual property matters. I like commercial business rights and trademarks. But to assert control against sharing intangible items like sound at the cost of compromising internet standards? I don't support that. We both agree that it's unenforceable without creating drastic policies we both are against right?
    What are these amorphous "internet standards" that people keep talking about? Where are they listed? To be honest, it sounds like hippie talk. The internet isn't a free for all. You've talked about the internet as a space for a free exchange of information that shouldn't be fooled with. What if I had your credit card numbers and shared them on the internet? Is that okay because the internet is a safe place that can't be touched? I know I sound harsh, but I'm trying to show that there are exceptions and limitations to a free exchange of information. It's the same as the first amendment. We have a right to free speech, but they'll still throw you in jail for yelling "fire" in a theater or threatening the life of the President. Not all speech is equal, and not all information sharing is either.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  5. #75
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yes--but I do think it's up to the user to realize that they have some responsibility, too. I don't agree with using strongarm tactics to prevent filesharing, but I do think that this generation needs to think a little harder about intellectual property and policing themselves.
    Too late. You now have an entire generation where at least 85%+ hates the music industry and while it might be "wrong", doesn't really give a damn about it and will continue sharing files anyway.

    The ONLY realistic solution, is simple: Make it simpler and easier for me to buy it and use it, than to steal it. As it is now, if I want a movie right now, I have two options:
    1. Go to the store and buy it/use an online download service. Now, the problem with both of these, is they will be copy-protected into a certain format, which thanks to the DMCA, I legally can't change. Therefore, in theory, ripping the DVD to my computer, or making a backup, is a serious crime. In addition, no one offers decent online downloadable video, because of the bandwidth required. Filesharing doesn't have this issue because the load is distributed over all the users.

    2. Steal it off the internet. This is free, lets me get it in any form I want, even HD quality, and I can then use it how I want, it's better quality, AND I can get it as quickly as my internet connection can run. (In my case, less than 20 minutes for a DVD)
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  6. #76
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    What are these amorphous "internet standards" that people keep talking about? Where are they listed? To be honest, it sounds like hippie talk. The internet isn't a free for all. You've talked about the internet as a space for a free exchange of information that shouldn't be fooled with.
    That's exactly what it's been so far. You don't seem to realize how traumatic it's going to be when they shove real-world standards down our throats when we've lived our whole lives on a medium where we've had a modicum of anonymity and freedom of expression. There are many who've escaped oppressive real-world standards by coming here to find out who they really are. Under your system, we'll just have an extension of that awful world here, and not a sanctuary.

    All you care about is your real-world inspired brand of justice and sense of how things should be, and screwing up this place until it's no better than the sorry world you live in. Think about it... do people talk and relate opinions freely like this in the real world? No, they don't. You know why? They're too afraid. They do it here, because they feel safe. Why on earth do you feel the need to take away that safety and restore the old, ubiquitous oppression of those who think differently that you grew up with?

    Once again... they can take their crappy music. Every last byte of it. I don't want to listen to it anymore if those are the kind of people they are. I'm going to limit myself to public domain artists, or nothing at all from now on. Furthermore, I'm going to throw out all of my commercial music. It isn't going to be that hard to find the places where people do filesharing and track down the users with current technology and less invasive tactics. An average person can find most of these places, so if they just offered some kind of incentive for turning in filesharing websites or individuals, I bet it would be really easy. In other words, If they just scaled up the enforcement via current methods, rather than putting in place an infrastructure that can completely control and stabilize what's available on the Internet to fall in line with what's accepted within a certain belief or legal system, there would be plenty of disincentive to try it. They can create reasonable disincentives without insidiously sticking their hands into hardware/software design and Internet protocol standards, so why won't they?

    You may try and justify it by saying it's about music and money, but that's not the issue at all. It's about appreciating having a fairly anonymous communication medium to discuss and share controversial ideas without fear of censure. I definitely don't want to go back to how things were before, where you had to watch every word and suffer unavoidable public consequences in order to share just about anything. The point is that if they implement a way of doing it with music, they'll also have the power to regulate and monitor what people say, on every part of the Internet.

    Does this satisfy you?

  7. #77
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5/8
    Socionics
    ENTp None
    Posts
    4,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    What are these amorphous "internet standards" that people keep talking about? Where are they listed? To be honest, it sounds like hippie talk. The internet isn't a free for all.

    ...

    Not all speech is equal, and not all information sharing is either.
    Precisely.

    The Internet is simply a communication medium; an interconnected repository of human information. Like a television. Or library. The primary difference is the scale and scope of data available via the Internet; prior to its widescale popularity, people had to cobble together many different pieces of individual research to achieve data results now available online with just a few clicks.

    This enhancement brings a lot of freedom into our lives - not only in the ease of comprehensive data gathering, but in the felicity of opportunity for unique human connection. Pen Pals have become a thing of the past...

    To that end, it seems to have dually provided an illusory 'comfort zone' for people who presume that their online behavior is necessarily anonymous or without typical legal consequence, should they break laws otherwise illegal in every other facet of their lives. Like stealing.

    Private ownership / legal rights of invention do not dissipate, simply because accessibility has changed. While I understand the philosophical premise to explore the potential diversity in legal conduct afforded by the Internet, I think most irritated chatter stems from folks not having access to data (music files, in this case) they would offline be expected to pay for. Questioning the 'morality' of 'corporate greed' is faceless obfuscation; morality has nothing to do with it.

    It's probably best to think of the Internet simply, anticipating typical domestic laws to ultimately control one's choices while online.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It's about appreciating having a fairly anonymous communication medium to discuss and share controversial ideas without fear of censure.
    What would make you conclude such a thing, Athenian?

  8. #78
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    This thread is awesome! And its funny, too!

    I think the most interesting aspect of file sharing/trade in general is this: Thugs are better at business and know more economics than most others in the industry. A rapper knows if he passes his shit around and just gets HEARD, that in itself IS money, and at that point, when you have people circulating your music, listening to it on the bus, talking about it, that makes you a name and your name is cash. Black rappers from Miami dont give a FUCK about file sharing or anyone "stealing" their music, and they usually don't care if you sample from 'em, do you know why? Cuz they don't have these fucked up ideas about music, economics and exchange value in general that white musicians seem to bolster. They know if they get 10,000 kids to just download a couple of their songs, they will see that commerce come back to them. Money is capital, and capital comes from exchange - be it exchange of mouth or bytes over the internet. It doesn't fucking matter...

    I think rap and hip hop is going to start engulfing our youth in the upcoming generations, and it isn't just because Rock lost its soul several decades ago while hip hop maintains true passions.... it's going to be because people like Dade county "hustlers" know more economics than suburban white rock/pop stars who whine about "intellectual property".

    Music is the property of a culture, not an individual. Fools

  9. #79
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5/8
    Socionics
    ENTp None
    Posts
    4,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Music is the property of a culture, not an individual. Fools
    Think this line would work if I wrote Jay-Z?

    Music becomes property once it is determined profitable. And, not just in terms of strict finance.

    How this relates to culture is a probably more a sociological issue, than it is an economic one.

  10. #80
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    no, not legal property.... the other, ACTUAL kind of property:

    1 a: a quality or trait belonging and especially peculiar to an individual or thing b: an effect that an object has on another object or on the senses c: virtue 3 d: an attribute common to all members of a class

    A man who has grown up on an island alone has no music. Music is the characteristic of a populous, and hence they are its natural owner.

    But hey, don't believe me and watch the economics win as always. The internet opened up a near-infinite forum in which to hear songs, which allowed music to proliferate to the point where the exchange value of any song is what the listener ascribes to it (everything is worth what its customer will pay for, afterll). Jay-Z or any other artist demanding that he has a right to my dollar when i've trafficked through the net is like one of those window washers who, after insisting on throwing his service in your face, DEMANDS that you pay something, instead of idly waiting by to see if you tip him. The former is absurd and ignoble, while the latter is honorable, and the musician should do just that. For a single to insist on the "right to money" from a poetic entity that flows through an entire social organism is absurd.

Similar Threads

  1. Was I being too harsh? :(
    By SecondBest in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 09-27-2010, 12:52 AM
  2. Piracy and File Sharing
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 02-05-2010, 01:22 AM
  3. Taking MBTT too seriously
    By snegledmaca in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 12-31-2007, 02:16 PM
  4. Last Five Files in Your "My Documents" Folder
    By Totenkindly in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-06-2007, 04:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO