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  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Prime View Post
    He is right.
    No, he's not. And if you agree with EffEm, you're wrong, too. So there!

    I agree. You should shut up.
    You shut up.

    I have to admit, I love having these mature conversations.

  2. #12
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Having said that, record companies should have seen the writing on the wall and come up with a way to provide individual songs for sale long before they actually did. It's hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Not to mention, record companies were vastly overcharging for cds for years, and people got tired of it.
    Exactly. They gouged the consumer on CDs so badly that it was unsustainable. Frankly the ridiculous judgment does not endear me to the RIAA. I've slowed music purchases dramatically. "sharing" music with friends as much as possible ftw. No downloads from random people to intercept,
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
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  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Shut up! That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard, calling music "property." I think they only started doing that after music was placed on mediums like records and such. Before that, I think most of it was public domain.
    I agree the penalty is absurd.

    But as a musician, I'm offended that people think that just because they can download a file online, they have a right to just take music without offering any sort of compensation.

    If you're a professional musician, this is your JOB *and* your source of income. And you work your ass off day in and day out to make a living.

    It's not much different than your company saying, "Hey, we still expect you to work 40 hours this week but we just don't feel like paying you, so we'll just pay you for 10 hours this week."

    That aspect of Gen Y / Internet thinking pisses me off -- that as a creator (writer or musician), I have no rights because people think they could just take my work for free because someone posted it. It's not much different than scavengers. There's a sense of entitlement by the people who are only receiving the work, not the ones creating it -- not much different than babies crying for their bottle, IMO.

    The record company being involved muddies things, yes, because they're often seeking a profit for themselves as an independent entity; on the other hand, they have the resources to protect the artist, which is one reason artists go with a big label to start with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Right. The downloaders shouldn't be sued. If anyone is blamed, it should be the people who share the files, not the ones who download. I've never shared files with anyone else, but I won't say that I've never downloaded anything that was less than... clean. Granted, I deleted/destroyed it all after some of the more restrictive legislation was passed, and now YouTube is my only... indulgence.
    According to the article I read, the companies stopped suing people last summer and are now pursuing the sites via which such music is distributed.

    Obviously their lawsuits were meant to terrify the consumer, to curb the downloading as much as possible (e.g., sort of like lessening the flow of water into a tributary that is flooding out of control), so that they had more time then to crack down on ISPs who are violating the rules (e.g., being able to finally build dams and stuff since the water flow has lessened).

    I don't necessarily agree with how they handled things, but I'm all for seeing that artists of any sort can get enough compensation for their work to be able to keep CREATING their work... except for a few big name acts, the large percentage of musicians are diverted into working other jobs and can't focus on their craft, so taking MORE income away is just shooting the culture in the foot in the long-term. And it puts the record companies MORE in control over what gets published, by making the artist dependent on them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  4. #14
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Sounds like they tried to settle out of court.

    I think they knew it wouldn't look good to win an $80K judgment against a single mom.I doubt they'll require her to pay.

    She should've stuck to torrents. I think there is some legal defense since you are getting pieces of the file from multiple sources.

  5. #15
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    i think these harsh penalties are pretty overboard BUT i do think that musicians and record comapanies deserve their just compensation.

    people who support the idea of free music, it seems to me, just want to get something for nothing and get all pissy when people tell them they actually have to pay for it.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  6. #16
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    On a side note, did you know that even superstar musicians with the best record contracts are still taking home pennies on the dollar for each record sold?

    It gets even worse the less established you are.

    If you truly believe file sharing is unfair to record companies, you're technically correct.

    But what really gets me is when people oppose file sharing and use "I support the ARTISTS!" as justification. If you really want to support the artist, go see them live, and buy a T-shirt while you're there. That's really where their money comes from. If I buy one concert ticket to an arena show by a professional touring band, I've already put 10x more money in their personal pockets than I would by buying their CD.

    With major labels, it's not the band's product. The label has paid the band for the rights to produce and sell those particular recordings, and now the vast majority of that profit belongs to the label. That's the price you pay for their marketing and promotion muscle.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by avolkiteshvara View Post
    She should've stuck to torrents. I think there is some legal defense since you are getting pieces of the file from multiple sources.
    I'd really like to hear that defense.

    ----

    I have become rather neutral on this issue, but a single mom being forced to pay that much would have been ridiculous. I could see boycotts on the songs that were on the list.

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  8. #18
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I do support artists, and I believe in compensating them for their music instead of downloading them for free, but come on!
    well this isn't really relevant, but i don't even think these musicians should be making so much money.

    it promotes industry -- the worst thing to happen to art [and particularly music] since industry began.

    the fact that you can make millions off a single album is the reason for bands like linkin park, the backstreet boys, every rap 'musician' and lady gaga -- the ones who have no business marketing themselves as musicians.

    it's because of industry that talents like Rush and Opeth are mostly ignored now.
    we fukin won boys

  9. #19
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    On a side note, did you know that even superstar musicians with the best record contracts are still taking home pennies on the dollar for each record sold?

    It gets even worse the less established you are.

    If you truly believe file sharing is unfair to record companies, you're technically correct.

    But what really gets me is when people oppose file sharing and use "I support the ARTISTS!" as justification. If you really want to support the artist, go see them live, and buy a T-shirt while you're there. That's really where their money comes from. If I buy one concert ticket to an arena show by a professional touring band, I've already put 10x more money in their personal pockets than I would by buying their CD.

    With major labels, it's not the band's product. The label has paid the band for the rights to produce and sell those particular recordings, and now the vast majority of that profit belongs to the label. That's the price you pay for their marketing and promotion muscle.
    Word. I think Radiohead distributes their own shit now and actually brings in more $ than working with record companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I'd really like to hear that defense.
    I don't know enough about torrents to make a totally coherent case. But at a micro level, I think it goes something like download a "B" note from one person. Download an "A" note from another. So you are taking bits and pieces from everyone else to create a file rather than directly getting the whole file from one person.

    But could be one of those wives talkes like "if you ask a cop if he is a cop and he/she has to say yes".

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    T
    Shut up! That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard, calling music "property." I think they only started doing that after music was placed on mediums like records and such. Before that, I think most of it was public domain.
    Yelling doesn't make you any less wrong. Music IS property. Even before recorded mediums, people still paid admission to see a performer. Is taking a CD from a store stealing? If so, then why isn't downloading that same song without paying stealing too? Just because someone else does the actual stealing and puts the music out in cyberspace where it doesn't "feel" like stealing doesn't absolve the downloader of culpability. "Well, everyone is doing it, and it's right out there in the open, so it's okay." That's the same rationale behind looting.

    Now, is pursuing prosecution in these cases the smartest thing for the music industry? Probably not. On the whole, it probably helps young emerging bands more than hurts them. But that's a completely separate issue from the legality of it.

    And your internet will be fine. It's not a Chinese buffet where you just take whatever you want. There will always be free content because of ads and because individual users post content. But downloading copyrighted creative works is not going to be free. They're made by professionals who do it for a living and deserve to be paid for their work. The internet is not a secret stash hidden away somewhere. It's the real world extended.
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