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Thread: On democracy

  1. #51
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Long story short:

    Democracy is only an illusion. Everyone knows that the people never have a say in anything important. Not even during revolutions. It is only the leaders - corporate, religious, political etc - that rules.

    Why bother? In practice, the entire "free world" is using the good old Athenian style democracy, even if we think we're not. Most people are still slaves, and to think differently is indeed stupid. Kudos to you if you are not a slave under the economy and politics of your country. It probably means that you could be considered a criminal, or another kind of persona non grata.

    Thoughts? Counter-points? Don't give me any of that idealistic libertarian/republican/democratic/leftist bullshit. Realistic, please.

    Slavery to what?
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  2. #52
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The liberal democracies of today afford people more rights and freedoms than ever. It's a good thing.
    I agree. What a Kodak moment.

    LocalJesus, travel to China or Zimbabwe or Cuba. Try to organize a protest against the government or local power authority there; and then, if and when you've been released from prison there, try the same back home. You might actually understand how much you have right now.

  3. #53
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    Do the protest here.
    We have better prisons.


    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    I agree. What a Kodak moment.

    LocalJesus, travel to China or Zimbabwe or Cuba. Try to organize a protest against the government or local power authority there; and then, if and when you've been released from prison there, try the same back home. You might actually understand how much you have right now.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    Irrelevant.

    The Spanish & Portugese split the world in two.

    The British controlled India with less than 20'000 footsoldiers.

    Power is military, economic and political. But on it's own, each is worthless.

    Switzerland is a good example of a small country doing very well for itself, thank you. Don't let it's cosy Alpine setting fool you. They're armed to the teeth and very capable soldiers. It comes with the terrain.

    They talk softly but carry big sticks.
    The Chinese don't have the economic weight to be a superpower. They don't have the human capital of Europe or the US. They're mostly just a source of cheap labor.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #55
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Slavery to what?
    The economy, of course. Sorry if I am not being completely obvious.


    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post

    LocalJesus, travel to China or Zimbabwe or Cuba. Try to organize a protest against the government or local power authority there; and then, if and when you've been released from prison there, try the same back home. You might actually understand how much you have right now.
    Please, do not throw Zimbabwe into the mix... Those guys are lunatics.
    I would not protest against the Chinese or Cuban government, simply because it would be a redundant action. They already work to increase the collective wellbeing. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying people have the "freedom to choose" that the western civilization seem to be stuck with. You will just have to accept that some people do not think like that. I for one does not subscribe to the myth of the self-made man, the freedom of choice etc. If you guys do, good for you.

    Anyway. Look at the western world today... We're in a decline, and we have been for some time. Asia just keeps on coming. The economic failure of dictatorships could probably be blamed on sanctions from the West, in most cases (esp. Cuba). How the hell could a country prosper if it is cut off from trade, new technology and such things?

    Look at China. They aren't really under any sanctions, and they're doing better than the rest of the world when it comes to development. We are not achieving anything at the moment, and they are growing like crazy.
    Now, I do not care for your crappy and utterly subjective opinions about the latter statement... Sure, China is a poor country in many ways, but they are rising faster than anything seen before. The comparison might be Japan or Germany after WWII, but they had industries, research and knowledge etc before it got blown to smithereens... The Chinese didn't. They have been a thrid-world country for a very, very long time. Now they are ground-breaking in many fields of science... If they ever get even close to the general quality of education that we have in the west, we're pretty much screwed.

    Most economic experts that I have ever heard or read on the subject seem to agree that they will be in the lead in not too many years. I'm starting to think that all this English I learned in school will be useless in a few decades... Maybe Mandarin will be the new interlingua?

    Just look at your own back yard, Americans. The Chinese own a fifth of your GDP, for God's sake. You might not want to believe that they're actually winning... But it won't do you any good to collectively stick your heads into the sand and pretend it isn't happening.
    Whenever anyone brings up this topic, you assume that your huge navy will be able to defend your needs and wants... Think outside the box. If you send enough missiles on one of those famous carriers, it will be destroyed You don't need ships to fight ships, only a lot of firepower. Who's got firepower? Asia's got firepower.

    Who the hell would want to invade the North American continent? It won't be needed once you're crushed on an international scale, and your trade isn't accepted. Your army isn't all that big... So without the navy, you guys couldn't really capture anything noteworthy if the Chinese didn't let you.
    In the end, it will be the crappy culture and selfish liberal values of the western world that will be our demise.

    Don't get me wrong... I'm not Chinese or pro-Chinese, and I frankly wouldn't like to see it happen. I kinda like things as they are.
    Just try to open up your minds to new possibilities, for once. I know you're fond of the United States... But you don't score patriot points by denying something very real.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  6. #56
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default The Reserve Currency

    When the Renminbi is the Reserve Currency of the whole world, we will know China has outstripped the United States.

    But no economist in the entire world is predicting this and the United States Dollar remains the Reserve Currency of the whole world.

    Everything else is secondary to this very simple fact.

  7. #57
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    The economy, of course. Sorry if I am not being completely obvious.




    Please, do not throw Zimbabwe into the mix... Those guys are lunatics.
    I would not protest against the Chinese or Cuban government, simply because it would be a redundant action. They already work to increase the collective wellbeing. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying people have the "freedom to choose" that the western civilization seem to be stuck with. You will just have to accept that some people do not think like that. I for one does not subscribe to the myth of the self-made man, the freedom of choice etc. If you guys do, good for you.

    Anyway. Look at the western world today... We're in a decline, and we have been for some time. Asia just keeps on coming. The economic failure of dictatorships could probably be blamed on sanctions from the West, in most cases (esp. Cuba). How the hell could a country prosper if it is cut off from trade, new technology and such things?

    Look at China. They aren't really under any sanctions, and they're doing better than the rest of the world when it comes to development. We are not achieving anything at the moment, and they are growing like crazy.
    Now, I do not care for your crappy and utterly subjective opinions about the latter statement... Sure, China is a poor country in many ways, but they are rising faster than anything seen before. The comparison might be Japan or Germany after WWII, but they had industries, research and knowledge etc before it got blown to smithereens... The Chinese didn't. They have been a thrid-world country for a very, very long time. Now they are ground-breaking in many fields of science... If they ever get even close to the general quality of education that we have in the west, we're pretty much screwed.

    Most economic experts that I have ever heard or read on the subject seem to agree that they will be in the lead in not too many years. I'm starting to think that all this English I learned in school will be useless in a few decades... Maybe Mandarin will be the new interlingua?

    Just look at your own back yard, Americans. The Chinese own a fifth of your GDP, for God's sake. You might not want to believe that they're actually winning... But it won't do you any good to collectively stick your heads into the sand and pretend it isn't happening.
    Whenever anyone brings up this topic, you assume that your huge navy will be able to defend your needs and wants... Think outside the box. If you send enough missiles on one of those famous carriers, it will be destroyed You don't need ships to fight ships, only a lot of firepower. Who's got firepower? Asia's got firepower.

    Who the hell would want to invade the North American continent? It won't be needed once you're crushed on an international scale, and your trade isn't accepted. Your army isn't all that big... So without the navy, you guys couldn't really capture anything noteworthy if the Chinese didn't let you.
    In the end, it will be the crappy culture and selfish liberal values of the western world that will be our demise.

    Don't get me wrong... I'm not Chinese or pro-Chinese, and I frankly wouldn't like to see it happen. I kinda like things as they are.
    Just try to open up your minds to new possibilities, for once. I know you're fond of the United States... But you don't score patriot points by denying something very real.
    China's economy and technology will rise, but it is still far off from global hegemony. Our only leverage to the united states is trade and economics.
    The U.S is still much more technologically superior to us.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

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