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  1. #11
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    There's no biological evidence of race, as a FYI.
    What?

    Are you saying that observations of quantifiable morphological traits in live specimens don't constitute biological data?

  2. #12
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    There's no biological evidence of race, as a FYI. At best, race can be culturally defined.
    There is enough evidence for minor diffrentatations and sub-clusters of isolated genetical diasporas, but not enough to claim race. Our genome is basically 99% identical.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    What?

    Are you saying that observations of quantifiable morphological traits in live specimens don't constitute biological data?
    In context of homo sapiens sapiens

    @OG
    In this case, the oldest shape of homo sapiens propbably lay in africa. The most archetypical humans aswell, closest to the first shape of homo sapiens sapiens are Sub saharan africans, as for the eurasians expansion, are most similar to the horn population.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  3. #13
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    What?

    Are you saying that quantifiable morphological observations of live specimens don't constitute biological data?
    lol k in a reread i was overgeneralizing the main idea, which when phrased properly, is similar but different. oops.

    The biological evidence of waht we deem as race are things like size of forehead, nose, protrusion of cheeks or jaws, etc. but in terms of scanning someone's genetic code and categorizing them, there's no true categories. Or, at least, the variance in any one "race" is greater than the difference between any one "race," and of course, there's no clear delineation, i.e. we're all part of the same confusing mess. My forensic anthropology prof is the biological expert in charge of the province's crime unit, and he was telling us that there's no legal defintion of race inside of his role in the forensics dept. simply because it's such a blurring of categories that they can't construct even basic enough categories.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    External physiology is irrelevant when it comes determining anything but larger intercontinental geographical variation of a massive diaspora, which every group of people have the potenial to develop any shape within, given the time and factors.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  5. #15
    Oberon
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    All right... so that means that doctors should not consider this outmoded concept of "race" when considering a possible diagnosis of sickle-cell anemia, for example? Or that a diagnosis of a -thalassemia should be made independent of knowing that the patient is of Greek stock?

    Just because the lines between things can be blurry doesn't meen the things are the same, or that the differences don't matter. Just because race is a moral and ethical non-sequitur doesn't mean that it's a biological one.

  6. #16
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    All right... so that means that doctors should not consider this outmoded concept of "race" when considering a possible diagnosis of sickle-cell anemia, for example? Or that a diagnosis of a -thalassemia should be made independent of knowing that the patient is of Greek stock?

    Just because the lines between things can be blurry doesn't meen the things are the same, or that the differences don't matter. Just because race is a moral and ethical non-sequitur doesn't mean that it's a biological one.
    The problem does not lay with negligble slight variation of geographical snp's frequencies here and there, but it lies with the terminology and definition of the term "race" in context of modern humans. the term "Human Races" itself is based on a outdated concept of diffrentation with basis on colonial and culturalocentric dogma of the 18th and 19th centuries, where the physical aspect of humans were empathized to a ridicules extent.

    As a far as i see it, minor variation is not a legitimate excuse to coin terms that encompass a largely homogenous hole.
    Last edited by ColonelGadaafi; 06-03-2009 at 04:01 AM.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  7. #17
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    All right... so that means that doctors should not consider this outmoded concept of "race" when considering a possible diagnosis of sickle-cell anemia, for example? Or that a diagnosis of a -thalassemia should be made independent of knowing that the patient is of Greek stock?

    Just because the lines between things can be blurry doesn't meen the things are the same, or that the differences don't matter. Just because race is a moral and ethical non-sequitur doesn't mean that it's a biological one.

    Those things are defined by genetics, not by 'race'. Race doesn't really exist as a taxonomy, except as a general concept.. It falls apart under deeper investigation.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Oldest surviving race, eh? Hmm...

    B. Permians, AFAIK. If you mean humans... then... humans.

    If culture, which is still practiced today, I believe it is Australian aboriginals. Maybe African, but the tracing there is much harder and has not survived intact in the same way (AFAIK).

  9. #19
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Those things are defined by genetics, not by 'race'.
    And I take it from your comment that you consider "race" to not be connected with genetics? That's absurd on the face of it.

    "Race" may be an outmoded and imprecise term, but it by no means follows that the term is meaningless. Rather, it's much more accurate to say that the concept is profoundly distasteful to post-modern culture, which considers itself above such things.

  10. #20
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Peltast View Post
    There is enough evidence for minor diffrentatations and sub-clusters of isolated genetical diasporas, but not enough to claim race. Our genome is basically 99% identical.


    In this case, the oldest shape of homo sapiens propbably lay in africa. The most archetypical humans aswell, closest to the first shape of homo sapiens sapiens are Sub saharan africans, as for the eurasians expansion, are most similar to the horn population.

    For reasons Monkey Peltast pointed out above, discussing what is the oldest race is a bit pointless. It does raise more interesting anthropological questions about human evolution. For example, why was Homo_erectus the first Homo to leave Africa (by that Falcarius means leave and not die out straight away), and why did they evolve into two (maybe three) main types (See charts below from wikipedia; modern human [Homo sapiens], Neanderthal, and maybe even Homo_floresiensis), and finally why did Neanderthal die out in Europe but not Homo sapiens?


    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

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