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  1. #31
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    A preposterous statement.

    Socialism is good. Capitalism is bad.
    Capitalism is good. Socialism is bad.
    Blah blah.

    They are both bad.
    A mixture of them is less than bad, though.
    To win is to lose.

    What happens if you give the socialists a free hand?
    Read history.
    It's not even history in some parts of the world; it's current events.


    Today, the money has the free hand.

    Money buys companies.
    Why?
    To run them to the ground.
    In order to increase the short time profit.
    Companies that are run into the ground are supposed to cease to exist. Companies that function well are supposed to flourish. We're messing with that dynamic now, and it's going to hurt us long-term (look at the auto companies).


    What is wrong with the stock market?
    The investor does not settle. He is not a builder.
    He blows the building up.

    Do not base in what is not. Base in what is.
    Investors absolutely build things. Without them, corporations do not exist, people don't work, and the entire economy grinds to a halt. More than half of adult Americans are investors in publicly-traded companies, either individually or through 401(k) programs and the like.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #32
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    A preposterous statement.

    Socialism is good. Capitalism is bad.
    Capitalism is good. Socialism is bad.
    Blah blah.

    They are both bad.
    A mixture of them is less than bad, though.
    To win is to lose.

    What happens if you give the socialists a free hand?
    Read history.

    Today, the money has the free hand.
    Ah, so both positions are extremes, and extremes tend to produce worse results than balance in general.
    Money buys companies.
    Why?
    To run them to the ground.
    In order to increase the short time profit.

    What is wrong with the stock market?
    The investor does not settle. He is not a builder.
    He blows the building up.

    Do not base in what is not. Base in what is.
    So... you mean the problem is that investors (and hence companies) are focused on short term, individual profit, and not on overall consequences, which makes them behave in ways that are less conducive to economic stability or long-term growth?

  3. #33
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Ah, so both positions are extremes, and extremes tend to produce worse results than balance in general.


    So... you mean the problem is that investors (and hence companies) are focused on short term, individual profit, and not on overall consequences, which makes them behave in ways that are less conducive to economic stability or long-term growth?
    Exactly.
    You said it better than I did.

    I admire your grasp of things.

  4. #34
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Exactly.
    You said it better than I did.

    I admire your grasp of things.
    :blushing: Thanks. I'm glad that I understood it correctly.

  5. #35
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It's not even history in some parts of the world; it's current events.




    Companies that are run into the ground are supposed to cease to exist. Companies that function well are supposed to flourish. We're messing with that dynamic now, and it's going to hurt us long-term (look at the auto companies).




    Investors absolutely build things. Without them, corporations do not exist, people don't work, and the entire economy grinds to a halt. More than half of adult Americans are investors in publicly-traded companies, either individually or through 401(k) programs and the like.
    What is the criterion of a thought?

    A thought is arms free.

  6. #36
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    A preposterous statement.

    Socialism is good. Capitalism is bad.
    Capitalism is good. Socialism is bad.
    Blah blah.

    They are both bad.
    A mixture of them is less than bad, though.
    To win is to lose.

    What happens if you give the socialists a free hand?
    Read history.

    Today, the money has the free hand.

    Money buys companies.
    Why?
    To run them to the ground.
    In order to increase the short time profit.

    What is wrong with the stock market?
    The investor does not settle. He is not a builder.
    He blows the building up.

    Do not base in what is not. Base in what is.
    Money doesn't have a free hand today.

    How free would you call a kid in a ball pit?

    All of the flaws you're attributing to capitalism are the result of a mixed economy.

    The only reason this system even exists is because of an equally ridiculous idea to mixed economies: that self interested parties should have the right to push through legislation under the guise of "the people".

    The system we live in today is essentially a "living" economic philosophy which reacts to it's own mistakes with minimal foresight.

    This system benefits only those who care nothing for ideologies and seek to manipulate the ever changing present state of the system in order to build greater fortunes. There is no safety against the intelligent and malicious man if business can rely equally on government support and popular support.

  7. #37
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    It is the province of religion to make us better people.

    So how interesting and how odd that an economic system has usurped the proper place of religion.

    But of course it is not just an economic system that has usurped religion, it is an economic system and Protestantism.

    So it is fair to say that Capitalism and Protestantism together form a new religion.

    For instance in the old religion, Jesus says, "Love your neighbour as yourself", while in the new religion, Benjamin Franklin, says, "God helps those who help themselves".

    So in the new religion it is fair to say that Capitalism makes us better people.

    In fact in the new religion prosperity is proof of God's favour.

    And at a deeper level in the new religion, prosperity or money, is God's sign that you are one of the elect.

    And so in the new religion money takes on a sacred value, so much that, "In God We Trust", is written on the face of each dollar bill.

    But just consider, the US dollar is the Reserve Currency of the whole world.

    And to own the Reserve Currency of the whole world is the aim of Merchantilism.

    And as this aim has been realised by the US, and is now backed up by the most powerful military the world has ever seen, this is proof positive that the United States of America is a successful economic empire.

    And indeed the business of America is business.

    And the United States would not have been so successful if their empire was not based on a new religion.

    And so we can see that Capitalism does make us better people, far better than Jesus ever could.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It is the province of religion to make us better people.
    I stopped reading after this false premise.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #39
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It is the province of religion to make us better people.

    So how interesting and how odd that an economic system has usurped the proper place of religion.

    But of course it is not just an economic system that has usurped religion, it is an economic system and Protestantism.

    So it is fair to say that Capitalism and Protestantism together form a new religion.

    For instance in the old religion, Jesus says, "Love your neighbour as yourself", while in the new religion, Benjamin Franklin, says, "God helps those who help themselves".

    So in the new religion it is fair to say that Capitalism makes us better people.

    In fact in the new religion prosperity is proof of God's favour.

    And at a deeper level in the new religion, prosperity or money, is God's sign that you are one of the elect.

    And so in the new religion money takes on a sacred value, so much that, "In God We Trust", is written on the face of each dollar bill.

    But just consider, the US dollar is the Reserve Currency of the whole world.

    And to own the Reserve Currency of the whole world is the aim of Merchantilism.

    And as this aim has been realised by the US, and is now backed up by the most powerful military the world has ever seen, this is proof positive that the United States of America is a successful economic empire.

    And indeed the business of America is business.

    And the United States would not have been so successful if their empire was not based on a new religion.

    And so we can see that Capitalism does make us better people, far better than Jesus ever could.
    I do not know what murkrow is up to.
    But I know what you are up to.

    It was a good description of modern capitalism, Victor.

    It is a deplorable philosophy. Thank you that you agree.

  10. #40
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkrow View Post
    Money doesn't have a free hand today.

    How free would you call a kid in a ball pit?

    All of the flaws you're attributing to capitalism are the result of a mixed economy.

    The only reason this system even exists is because of an equally ridiculous idea to mixed economies: that self interested parties should have the right to push through legislation under the guise of "the people".

    The system we live in today is essentially a "living" economic philosophy which reacts to it's own mistakes with minimal foresight.

    This system benefits only those who care nothing for ideologies and seek to manipulate the ever changing present state of the system in order to build greater fortunes. There is no safety against the intelligent and malicious man if business can rely equally on government support and popular support.
    define freehand.

    Money always had a freehand since market economy was invented.

    Coporations has the most power because people have no other options than to buy their products.
    Can a small construction company with a few construction workers compete with a megacoporation in the same industry.

    No i don't think so.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

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