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Thread: Food insurance

  1. #41
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    His point is that medical insurance companies feed off of a populus who can barely afford it and cater to another populus who can. You can see the obvious ethical dilemma, no? A population of the poor who are forced to buy into medical insurance just to survive/get basic treatment LOSE MONEY BY PAYING MORE THAN WHAT THEY RECEIVE. Think about it.
    I don't care about any moral/ethical arguments. I only care that the system could be much more efficient.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #42
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Okay okay.

    Health insurance is a bet against your own well-being. It's a bet that you'll get injured or sick this month, when the health insurance company says that you won't.

    Food insurance would be a bet that you will need food this month. Thus, the food insurance company always loses, and needs to charge more than the cost of food to make a profit.

    The same thing happens to health insurance when people who are chronically ill need consistent treatment -- medication, dialysis, etc. The betting system breaks down, and therefore the chronically ill pay more into the system than they get out.

    So, should those who are chronically ill not pay into insurance for their regular treatments, but instead pay directly?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #43
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't care about any moral/ethical arguments. I only care that the system could be much more efficient.


    you care about feeding healing people; this is a moral issue by proxy :P but I agree, we do NOT have an efficient distribution of medical care in this country. We have efficient distribution of mp3s, Hollywood blockbusters, and automobiles that get 30 MPG highway. That's about it :P

    I think distribution of medical care is like education, its a thing that only a good, warm-blooded culture can provide. This is why i'll move to Canada when I'm 50.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Food insurance would be a bet that you will need food this month. Thus, the food insurance company always loses, and needs to charge more than the cost of food to make a profit.
    Not just that, but it introduces an economic inefficiency by disrupting the flow of cost information (because insurance companies serve as a middle man). When suppliers raise their prices, they don't see a reduction in demand that they would normally see if people paid directly.

    So, should those who are chronically ill not pay into insurance for their regular treatments, but instead pay directly?
    I don't know enough about medicine to know what would be involved in taking care of a chronically ill person, but they should probably pay directly...unless their condition was the result of a heart attack/stroke/etc and they had catastrophic medical insurance at the time their illness began.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #45
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    you care about feeding healing people; this is a moral issue by proxy :P but I agree, we do NOT have an efficient distribution of medical care in this country. We have efficient distribution of mp3s, Hollywood blockbusters, and automobiles that get 30 MPG highway. That's about it :P
    Actually, I just don't want a more inefficient system put in place to "fix" the current system. I believe that the fact that insurance is even involved in medicine (outside of catastrophic events) to be one of the core problems with the system. Virtually every solution proposed in the mainstream involves expanding insurance in some form. To me, it looks like we're only going to cause more problems in the long run (although things will probably get better temporarily).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #46
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    What about a government-funded alternative to buying into medical insurance? Cuz you're not gonna be able to say "scrap medical insurance companies", that would be "anti-American" cuz it provides jobs, but you can make those sons of bitches compete with uncle sam's provisions or die the fuck off. That's the capitalist way! (This is already done with Education. Private schools compete with public or they get closed off. It works)

  7. #47
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Of course it's nonsensical, just like medical insurance (outside of catastrophic medical insurance) is nonsensical.
    Ahhh... now I get you. In that case, I do agree. Routine medical 'insurance' makes no sense at all and never has.

  8. #48
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I suppose I don't quite understand. The reason why insurance works and is generally a good idea is because of incidents that require sudden attention and costly services. I mean, medical insurance may pay for parts of normal visits, but still it's for emergencies.

    What is this 'food insurance' for? I mean, unless you suddenly become pregnant or your doctor tells you you need to drastically change your diet, food expenses don't change much from month to month. I don't get why someone would choose to pay a premium instead of just pay for normal grocery expenses.
    Exactly. Insurance is, by definition, against accidents or poorly predictable events. Food shortages are very uncommon in the western world; there exists insurance for specific types of crops, in case of extremely bad harvest, which works quite well (there is a flourishing market). The inefficiency that Lateralus speaks about is due to what is typically called an "asymmetric information" problem: at time A the insurance company does not know with certainty if the insured person has good or bad health, thus in its most simplified application tends to charge the highest rate (actually, the exact rate depends also on the risk aversion of the individual). However, many solution have been proposed (some of them have been already applied) to counter this problem. I will review my advanced micro book and post about it later, since it's a very interesting topic.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Your logic is inconsistent: Don't do it for food because it would waste money, but do it for prescription drugs because they're too expensive...


    You're not getting my point, but I don't think you want to get it.


    Details about an implementation that's irrelevant.
    My logic is consistent because the issue is gray, not black and white. Your thinking is actually the faulty here because overgeneralizing is ...stupid. Actually, I want the health care system reformed too, but that's not the issue here.

    Actually, I don't get your point. Details about implementation are NOT irrelevant because we're talking about human lives here. Of course, you've made it perfectly clear that you don't see this as a moral or ethical issue. I find it ironic considering another discussion I had with you about the death penalty. You're against the death penalty, but it's okay with you if people suffer or starve to death. But my logic is inconsistant?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Well, I'm sorry for being retarded.
    You're not retarded. He's just crazy and trying desperately to defend his insane plan for more "efficient food" as if the United States had any problem at all with food efficiency.

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