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  1. #31
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
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    I like that Night seems to think that this man's value system may reflect, to some extent, the larger culture of which he is a part. It's especially interesting to me to look at it from that angle as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toonia
    Lian Jiansheng is the epitome of presumption to make a judgment and punishment of this nature. He could just as easily ended the the scenario by pulling the man away from the bridge. He admitted to committing murder because his statement is that he assumed the man did not want to kill himself. That is murder. Self-righteous justifications for punishment are at the core of humanity's cruel nature. In the scope of his influence, Lian Jiansheng has acted with tyranny.
    I don't know if he could have just as easily ended the scenario by pulling him off. I don't think he would have had nearly as easy a time pulling him off as he would have pushing him off. Perhaps, also, it would have been more dangerous to try to get him off the bridge by any other means than pushing; the only part of the bridge that had a safety cushion under it was the part he was pushed from, right? I can also see him being relatively positive that the man wouldn't be seriously injured. His decision to push him off was radical, perhaps reckless, and perhaps cruel, but I can't say that with certainty.

    In any case, I laughed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toonia
    My initial response to someone making a self-destructive public spectacle is not, "selfish", but instead "not well". In the mind of the jumper there was something compelling enough to act this out. The chance of some kind of mental instability or chemical balance is present. I don't quite understand going at character as a first assumption because it takes much more time and information to understand a person's character. Illness makes more sense as an initial reaction imo. It matches the situation in a more plausible way because there is proof of some sort of desperation and extreme thinking.
    I agree. I also think that selfishness doesn't always have to be a reflection of character. To me, it's possible there are biological roots for a lot of personality traits that would seem to be character traits but are really out of the individual's power to control.
    They're running just like you
    For you, and I, wooo
    So people, people, need some good ol' love

  2. #32
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    No, I can see myself in similar situation.

    And still see it as selfish and defective. As most suicidal people are.
    Here's a question. So what if they are selfish and/or defective? Is there any reason that is even worth mentioning? The selfish part would be the normal part, the part like the rest in the crowd. I've dealt with suicidal people and am aware of the kind of ego-centric reasoning that goes with heightened states of anxiety and depression. It is a lack of awareness of anything outside their pain and therefore centered on self. That is the disease of it.

    There is a problem, take care of the immediate problem by removing the person from traffic. Take care of the longer-term problem by getting the person treatment. There's nothing to judge from what I can see. Needing to condemn the man doesn't reflect on the desperate person, but on the crowds own selfishness and neediness. [rhetorical statement to people in such crowds] Go judge someone "your own size", rather than someone in a state of desperation. It's just too easy to find fault and feel superior to desperate people.

    Even though it's ironic, I don't find this kind of shit funny.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Here's a question. So what if they are selfish and/or defective? Is there any reason that is even worth mentioning? The selfish part would be the normal part, the part like the rest in the crowd.

    There is a problem, take care of the immediate problem by removing the person from traffic. Take care of the longer-term problem by getting the person treatment. There's nothing to judge from what I can see. Needing to condemn the man doesn't reflect on the desperate person, but on the crowds own selfishness and neediness. {rhetorical statement to people in such crowds] Go judge someone "your own size", rather than someone in a state of desperation. It's just too easy to find fault and feel superior to desperate people.

    Even though it's ironic, I don't find this kind of shit funny.
    +1

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Here's a question. So what if they are selfish and/or defective? Is there any reason that is even worth mentioning? The selfish part would be the normal part, the part like the rest in the crowd.

    There is a problem, take care of the immediate problem by removing the person from traffic. Take care of the longer-term problem by getting the person treatment. There's nothing to judge from what I can see. Needing to condemn the man doesn't reflect on the desperate person, but on the crowds own selfishness and neediness. {rhetorical statement to people in such crowds] Go judge someone "your own size", rather than someone in a state of desperation. It's just too easy to find fault and feel superior to desperate people.

    Even though it's ironic, I don't find this kind of shit funny.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...stand-nts.html

  5. #35
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    +1
    we fukin won boys

  6. #36
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Can you clarify, MacGuffin? My post was not meant as an attack on yours. I tried to clarify that with the [rhetorical statement] remark. Does type refer to the scenario or your post? I don't actually have an opinion about your personal position on the subject in case that wasn't clear. My comments are directed in a very general sense. The first paragraph are questions relating to your post. The rest has little or nothing to do with your post.

    Once a post is quoted, everything said that follows is assumed directly related to that post. I need to find a better way than paragraph breaks to clarify that. Does it read differently to you with the paragraph break?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lurker's Avatar
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    MacGuffin, I don't think this issue is a T or F one. I know several Ts who weren't amused. I simply can't get on board with this one..too much empathy. I doubt the guy intended for the incident to become the clusterfuck it did, and even if he didn't care, he felt horrible enough to get to that point in the first place. For that alone I have pity.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Can you clarify, MacGuffin? My post was not meant as an attack on yours. I tried to clarify that with the [rhetorical statement] remark. Does type refer to the scenario or your post? I don't actually have an opinion about your personal position on the subject in case that wasn't clear. My comments are directed in a very general sense. The first paragraph are questions relating to your post. The rest has little or nothing to do with your post.

    Once a post is quoted, everything said that follows is assumed directly related to that post. I need to find a better way than paragraph breaks to clarify that. Does it read differently to you with the paragraph break?
    A misread then on my part.

    I find if one wishes to make a general remark, it's best not to quote anyone.

  9. #39
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    A misread then on my part.

    I find if one wishes to make a general remark, it's best not to quote anyone.
    I understand the misread, and apologize for lack of clarity.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I understand the misread, and apologize for lack of clarity.
    In general though, I don't make it known what I find funny in public or among friends/family. They think I'm already weird enough as it is. They don't need to know every dark thought that crosses my mind.

    I actually restrain myself here too. I write a lot that I don't show anyone.

    I do find the suicidal extraordinarily selfish though. They are so unable to see beyond themselves. It's a symptom of the problem. The ones that make a public spectacle of their "suicide attempt" I find aren't very serious about acutally killing themselves. They just want attention.

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