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View Poll Results: Do you think this is a move in the right direction?

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  • Yes.

    14 70.00%
  • No.

    6 30.00%
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Results 31 to 40 of 44

  1. #31
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    They won't disappear because of these regulations, if there is still demand.
    No, they won't disappear, but they will become a much smaller segment of the market regardless of demand. This is the same thing that happened to the large family sedan when the CAFE standards were introduced; car companies couldn't meet the requirements of the law and turn out a half-million Delta Eighty-Eights every year. Instead they started cranking out minivans, which replaced the big sedans, met the letter of the law, and did essentially nothing to improve our motor fuel consumption.

    One can still buy a Chevy Caprice or Ford Crown Vic, but they're not the market staple that they used to be.

  2. #32
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    No, they won't disappear, but they will become a much smaller segment of the market regardless of demand. This is the same thing that happened to the large family sedan when the CAFE standards were introduced; car companies couldn't meet the requirements of the law and turn out a half-million Delta Eighty-Eights every year. Instead they started cranking out minivans, which replaced the big sedans, met the letter of the law, and did essentially nothing to improve our motor fuel consumption.

    One can still buy a Chevy Caprice or Ford Crown Vic, but they're not the market staple that they used to be.
    Yup. There is always a certain amount of deadweight loss when regulations are implemented... but the picture is bigger than people getting the largest car they can afford.

  3. #33
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Yup. There is always a certain amount of deadweight loss when regulations are implemented... but the picture is bigger than people getting the largest car they can afford.
    And the picture is also bigger than reducing carbon emissions at all costs.

    Top-down manipulation of the auto market is simply a bad idea. Highway mortality will increase because of this legislation. How many lives is a reduction in the carbon footprint really worth?

  4. #34
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    And the picture is also bigger than reducing carbon emissions at all costs.
    All costs seems relative. This is pretty low cost, relative to the rest of the world.

    Top-down manipulation of the auto market is simply a bad idea. Highway mortality will increase because of this legislation. How many lives is a reduction in the carbon footprint really worth?
    Carbon footprint? This is also about general emissions and gas consumption. In any case, in terms of pollutants, it is pretty high - pollution has a relatively high cost in terms of lives, and the CAFE standards a relatively lower rate. I don't know the exact influence of particulars that cars give, in aggregate, or how much of an influence this would have, but... that's what I mean by the big picture.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    One can still buy a Chevy Caprice or Ford Crown Vic, but they're not the market staple that they used to be.
    No you can't.

    I agree with the point you're making, but the Caprice has been off the market since '96 and the Crown Vic hasn't been available to civilians for a few years.

  6. #36
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    We have two different types of people when we discuss left and right. The former is a "the ends justify the means" type as long as the end fits with their beliefs. The latter is a "the means are the end" type. The former is concerned with the world as a whole and making it a better place. At times, they want to change the world before they change anything that they actually have power to change, such as themselves or the situation immediately around them. They see it as being benevolent, altruistic, and their way of doing what's right for the world. The latter type, on the other hand, seeks change and just order through modifying their own lives and their loved ones'. For them, it is not about changing the world, it is about doing the best one can as an individual (which ultimately has a cumulative effect). Being too concerned with the whole or being too concerned with the individual can both lead to blind action.

    And of course those personality traits can be mixed between the political sides, depending on what segment of the "right" and "left" we are looking at. Environmentalists and self proclaimed Progressives would fit the above description more accurately.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Depends how you look at it. If this regulation forces automakers to diversify their 35 mpg+ lineups, consumers who find efficiency important will have more choices.
    The thing is, there already are other choices. They're just not built by American auto manufacturers and most Americans aren't buying them.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38
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    Although I rather drive a small car, I just bought a SUV simply because I don't feel safe with so many mastodon driving red-necks on the road. I hope they will eventually phase out large cars rather than just make them more expensive.

  9. #39
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'd actually love to buy a little electrical city commuter. Still have a car, probably, but for 90% of the driving inside the city, it'd be better.
    Another option -- several of my friends drive scooters like these around the city:

    Granted, they're not electric, but you can get them for under a thousand bucks. In this state, they need no tag, you can drive them on the sidewalks, and park them at bike racks.

    As a cyclist, runner, and former asthmatic with a long family history of cancer, I fully support a reduction in emissions.

  10. #40
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    Several of my friends drive scooters like these around the city:
    Not a chance in hell I'll be driving that in Vancouver <_< Otherwise, I'd consider it!

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