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View Poll Results: Do you think this is a move in the right direction?

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  • Yes.

    14 70.00%
  • No.

    6 30.00%
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  1. #11
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Can the quality of American cars get any lower?
    I meant in terms of size and space... more generic quality. But yah, I loled at that. I can't imagine buying a domestic car right now.

    I've read that the administration estimates the average vehicle price will rise by $1,300 as a result of this legislation.
    Average is only part of the story... there is a lot of market segmentation. If, for example, the cars turn into 2 seater commuters in large numbers, the price will likely drop.

    (Prices will rise, but there will be some replacement, so it won't affect everyone price wise... I'm pretty sure the lower end cars will fill out as a result.)

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Average is only part of the story... there is a lot of market segmentation. If, for example, the cars turn into 2 seater commuters in large numbers, the price will likely drop.

    (Prices will rise, but there will be some replacement, so it won't affect everyone price wise... I'm pretty sure the lower end cars will fill out as a result.)
    Are drive-bys in the next decade going to be using vehicles like these?

    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #13
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Are drive-bys in the next decade going to be using vehicles like these?
    Heh, could happen, to some degree. Mind you, it should have happened in the 70s, as it takes a good 25 years for infrastructure to adjust. That's going to put the brakes on it!

    I'd actually love to buy a little electrical city commuter. Still have a car, probably, but for 90% of the driving inside the city, it'd be better.

  4. #14
    Senior Member FC3S's Avatar
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    We are only doing this now? How is this a step in the right direction? Isn't this a step backwards?

    Civic VX, CRX HF, Geo Metro (to name some prized examples) all break 50 mpg. These cars were made in the early nineties.

    It should become the goal to break 50 mpg or higher.
    ESTP - Definition: "Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target a 120 km away, with an aratech sniper rifle and tri-light scope.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FC3S View Post
    We are only doing this now? How is this a step in the right direction? Isn't this a step backwards?

    Civic VX, CRX HF, Geo Metro (to name some prized examples) all break 50 mpg. These cars were made in the early nineties.

    It should become the goal to break 50 mpg or higher.
    But consumers aren't clamoring for it. If they were, car companies would change the game up. As far as developing new technologies for cars, American car companies are vehemently reluctant to do so because such changes require sweeping retooling of the manufacturing process, and more importantly, is completely dependent on the energy policies the government decides to enact. GM had everything going for hydrogen cars until the Bush administration abandoned the hydrogen initiative and started on biofuels. Again, the government's interference keeps the capitalist system from doing what it needs to do to meet the challenges of the future. The car companies already expressed that they wouldn't be able to meet the 35 mpg standard by 2020 set by Bush. It would require them to make lightweight unsafe cars in order to meet such fuel efficiency ratings.

  6. #16
    Senior Member FC3S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    But consumers aren't clamoring for it. If they were, car companies would change the game up. As far as developing new technologies for cars, American car companies are vehemently reluctant to do so because such changes require sweeping retooling of the manufacturing process, and more importantly, is completely dependent on the energy policies the government decides to enact. GM had everything going for hydrogen cars until the Bush administration abandoned the hydrogen initiative and started on biofuels. Again, the government's interference keeps the capitalist system from doing what it needs to do to meet the challenges of the future. The car companies already expressed that they wouldn't be able to meet the 35 mpg standard by 2020 set by Bush. It would require them to make lightweight unsafe cars in order to meet such fuel efficiency ratings.
    Assuming what you say is true, then this already answers my question - the government is taking a step backwards.
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  7. #17
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Who cares what emissions standards American cars have today, anyway? I hope the Big 3 disappear within the next generation. I resent the fact that they get my tax money and I don't even get a car out of the deal.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #18
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Who cares what emissions standards American cars have today, anyway? I hope the Big 3 disappear within the next generation. I resent the fact that they get my tax money and I don't even get a car out of the deal.
    But they supply jobs for so many people!

    You have to question the value of a job that doesn't result in anything useful being produced.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #19
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Not so much, or at least not as directly as the alternatives of increasing gas prices/etc, which is very recessive (transportation costs are passed along). The advantage to doing this is that it causes a lot of lower end/lighter cars, which are inherently lower priced, so the price point is unlikely to move significantly - the 'quality' will lower, however.

    Course, I find this rather intelligent, from a strategic point of view. Give bailout money to retool factories, increase barrier of entry for foreign cars? Heh, not bad.

    Too bad they have to compete with the auto companies that already produce cars like that, and that the US companies have a very small global presence since they produced a market niche that really only appeals to Americans. I suppose it's still the best they could do, given the cards they had.
    Exactly! No wonder they are all going under. I have to say though, Ford does not too badly around the world, that's probably why they're in a slightly better position than the others. I would only see a GM or Chrysler once in a blue moon here in NZ

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    But consumers aren't clamoring for it. If they were, car companies would change the game up. As far as developing new technologies for cars, American car companies are vehemently reluctant to do so because such changes require sweeping retooling of the manufacturing process, and more importantly, is completely dependent on the energy policies the government decides to enact. GM had everything going for hydrogen cars until the Bush administration abandoned the hydrogen initiative and started on biofuels. Again, the government's interference keeps the capitalist system from doing what it needs to do to meet the challenges of the future. The car companies already expressed that they wouldn't be able to meet the 35 mpg standard by 2020 set by Bush. It would require them to make lightweight unsafe cars in order to meet such fuel efficiency ratings.
    Excuse me, but what a load of bull. :rolli:

    If the American consumers don't want this then they are idiots. Its going to save them loads over the long term. I think the American public are often not informed about what they are missing out on. They don't have reasonable options when it comes to fuel efficient cars. Japan and Europe even make fuel efficient larger cars (lets face it that's what Americans love) that compete with the smaller, more fuel efficient American ones. And I should think they are pretty damn safe too! Sure these companies will probably will have to rethink how big and heavy they make cars and some consumers will be unhappy about this. But do ordinary people really need to drive Hummers anyway?

    Japanese and European car manufacturers can make fuel efficient cars with one hand tied behind their backs because they have made it their business to care about it. American car manufacturers don't because it costs money to develop the technology (that they should have been working on 15 years ago!), either that or they're too chummy with the oil companies. And lets face it, if they had done this years ago the government wouldn't need to interfere - clearly they need to be pushed. I understand that the times are tough but it needs to be done. If the American manufacturers don't move with the times they will be obsolete in a few years anyway - then there definitely won't be any jobs. I do think the goverment will have to help them out but this is a fantastic move.

    Be proud America! This may be one of the biggest enviromental policies to be introduced in history. I'm proud of you!

    BTW here are some statistics to convince you of the disparity: American vs. Japanese fuel economy

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post

    Excuse me, but what a load of bull. :rolli:

    [/URL]
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