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  1. #21
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    How the Public School System Crushes Souls | steve-olson.com

    The article isn't as long as the scroll bar tells you, it just has a lot of comments.

    After reading this I realize how lucky I am to be in a very small public school. Anything else would probably have ruined me by now. It's pretty bad here though, depending on what "cliques" you associate with. I hang out with the "gamer" group typically (a bunch of NTs and a few NFs), so I am lucky to be accepted for who I am. I feel bad for the others however... I see this emotional, physical abuse etc play out (I report it to an authority in the school if it's too bad). It's pathetic. I got bullied in school... But it doesn't compare to what happens in larger schools. At least the people in my grade matured a bit and realized how useless bullying is for the most part.

    Thoughts?
    i think that school kids spend way too much time with their peer group (i.e. negative interaction) than with their own family (ideally positive interaction) and their peer group nearly becomes their family.........

    i also did well in school cuz i learned early on to jump through those hoops, and was lucky enough to take tests well, but as an adult i didn't really know sh#$ about geography or basic facts most people take for granted.

    we decided to homeschool our kids and it's probably the best investment we are making in our kids' lives. they are savvy, smart, decisive, and responsible kids. we do think some sort of school experience is beneficial, whether that is high school or attending junior college early, so that they get the best of both worlds. but only after spending those core years at home.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    The problem with schools in general is that you take a bunch of teenagers who are just learning how to socially construct themselves, and then throw them into a school with minimal supervision. Human nature leads us to categorize people, and some people, through no fault of their own, are categorized as "bad." Teenagers, lacking the ability to stand against the crowd for their desire to "fit in", make fun of those who are "beneath" them in the pool of social relationships, making them drown even more in their own sorrow.

    I was lucky as a child to be raised in a small town. Though there definitely were "cliques", there wasn't as much of the social groups hating each other thing - everyone knew everyone from an early grade, so it didn't matter as much as in a larger school. But it's still not an ideal situation. I latched on to the only social group I could find.. we were probably the most oddball collection out there. Couple of atheist, apathetic people, a couple of big nerds (me belonging to this category ), a couple of extremely religious people. But I'm glad I was friends with them, because they gave me the ability to see that even a diverse group of people can share something in common.. a very good lesson, one that more of our teenagers need to learn.

    Society is cruel though. One of my friends, constantly made fun of for his weight and his quiet, somewhat awkward demeanor, committed suicide when we were in the 11th grade. The system is in dire need of change.
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

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  3. #23
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    The public school system has shattered my spirit and I highly recommend getting your child into a charter school if homeschooling isn't for you. not everyone is cut out for homeschooling. I am having a difficult time staying structured and not totally going insane. I also want our son to socialize with other kids his own age and not live in our basement when he grows up which I believe is where he's heading if I bale him out each time he feels uncomfortable or out of place.

    I felt like a total freak in school. I'm amazed that I even managed to have several friends as I was a complete anxious, nervous mess on the inside while maintaining a "normal" external appearance so I can understand how he feels. I want to help him avoid feeling badly about himself so I am going to let him try out a small charter school he was accepted into and see how that goes.

    Also, after yesterdays negative experience with the principle of my son's base public school I will never have him back there again so if the charter doesn't work out we'll try home school part three.

  4. #24
    Senior Member FallaciaSonata's Avatar
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    I also want our son to socialize with other kids his own age and not live in our basement when he grows up which I believe is where he's heading if I bale him out each time he feels uncomfortable or out of place.
    But does he really need a lot of socialization? One of the reasons homeschooling was so nice for me was my extreme introversion. If he's okay with living in the basement (which I did for a couple of years) then....what exactly is the problem? Just a thought -- don't kill me. ; )

    Always remember to flank your enemies. History won't remember how dramatic your failed frontal assault looked. - Dragon Age: Origins

  5. #25
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    It's important for people to grow and learn to relate to others, as well as experience different perspectives and ways of living. Any personality trait, like introversion, can be a weakness that holds us back in life if we don't mature and develop outside of what we typically find comfortable.
    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  6. #26
    Senior Member FallaciaSonata's Avatar
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    Oh, don't get me wrong --- I have had plenty of socialization. (Church and otherwise.) I suppose I should have said that everyone has their own definition of "plenty", in this case. I need socialization --- everyone does. However, I need significantly less than everyone else, in most cases. Does that make any sense?

    I understand the importance of learning, and I do learn when placed in extroverted situations. I have no issues exploring other outlets of learning, or other ways of seeing things.

    That said, I still like and prefer my introversion.

    Always remember to flank your enemies. History won't remember how dramatic your failed frontal assault looked. - Dragon Age: Origins

  7. #27
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    My thoughts on the educational level of public schools aside, I don't think there's a one size fits all formula for children everywhere. If you want to home school your kid to exorcise your own demons, that may be detrimental to a child who needs that type of interaction. And it works the other way also if you force your kid to go to public school for interactions that potentially harm him/her.

    I believe parents should take more aggressive steps to make sure their children are well protected and well educated. Unfortunately, that means different things for each parent and child. Some parents want to toughen you up, some want to kiss your boo boos. Some parents may not be able to educate their child to their full potential. Some can educate very well but teach you nothing about socialization.

    Every child deserves individual thought put into their growth process.

  8. #28
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    It's important for people to grow and learn to relate to others, as well as experience different perspectives and ways of living. Any personality trait, like introversion, can be a weakness that holds us back in life if we don't mature and develop outside of what we typically find comfortable.
    I agree, but most parents that worry about this are introverts and aren't able deal with the socialization either... They normally have come to depend on those chance encounters themselves, such as having a few close friends that they met through more forced encounters. More E parents don't have a problem looking up a club for their kid and pushing them into it - which is what I kids need to generate the same closer circle of friends.

    My dad is/was solidly E, and so he drove that part of me. Didn't matter if it was joining a more 'country club' thing like tennis, a nerdy thing like chess club or team sports like baseball and soccer, he drove me to do it. It's not hard to socialize, really - there are so many events. Young kids have it easiest... it was way harder to join in with teenager events later on.

    Also, martial arts is highly recommended for social contact - even more so for Is. Way more group identity, as well as personal identity. It is much harder to be ostracized, and it really builds confidence. My general experience is that I females gain the most from it, relative to the alternatives.

  9. #29
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    How the Public School System Crushes Souls | steve-olson.com

    The article isn't as long as the scroll bar tells you, it just has a lot of comments.

    After reading this I realize how lucky I am to be in a very small public school. Anything else would probably have ruined me by now. It's pretty bad here though, depending on what "cliques" you associate with. I hang out with the "gamer" group typically (a bunch of NTs and a few NFs), so I am lucky to be accepted for who I am. I feel bad for the others however... I see this emotional, physical abuse etc play out (I report it to an authority in the school if it's too bad). It's pathetic. I got bullied in school... But it doesn't compare to what happens in larger schools. At least the people in my grade matured a bit and realized how useless bullying is for the most part.

    Thoughts?
    I avoided any real issues in school. I don't know exactly what I did, but I set things up so that everyone except the teachers generally ignored and avoided me. I think what I did was somehow master a bunch of signals indicating unwillingness to "play the game," so to speak. Somehow or other, this discouraged bullies.

    Another thing I might have done that helped was to simply... refuse to become emotionally invested in anything around me. I dismissed the other kids as dumb, inferior animals, and decided that all I really needed to concern myself with was showing up on time, avoiding official punishment, and earning a decent grade. Staying completely, totally focused on that, and refusing to allow myself to be affected by anything else, somehow gave me a lot of control no one else seemed to have.

    Whatever it was I did, I retained my ability to read other peoples emotions and adapt my expression in a way that was beneficial, without actually allowing myself to feel what they were feeling. In other words, I unplugged my actual feelings from my emotional expression and perception. I tied my actual feelings up in fantasies, and tied my expression to whatever happened to be most conducive to getting me left alone by the dumb animals to focus on the goals I'd been assigned.

    I wish I could explain exactly what I did that caused people to leave me alone, but I don't know exactly what it was, or why few/none of the other kids seemed to know how to do it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I agree, but most parents that worry about this are introverts and aren't able deal with the socialization either... They normally have come to depend on those chance encounters themselves, such as having a few close friends that they met through more forced encounters.
    Perhaps. I am most interested in my son being balanced, no matter what his personality happens to be.

    I really like the idea of martial arts, especially since you mentioned the group focus. I wasn't allowed to participate in those types of things when I was younger, but maybe I'll involve my son or future kids.
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