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  1. #51
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'll add this:

    You could have a program that attempts two prongs, one of prevention and the other of cure. You could also have a program that completely takes its hands off, and neither attempts to prevent or cure the drug issue.

    I would actually prefer either one of those to a program that never tries to prevent anything but obligates us to cure everything.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #52
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'll add this:

    You could have a program that attempts two prongs, one of prevention and the other of cure. You could also have a program that completely takes its hands off, and neither attempts to prevent or cure the drug issue.

    I would actually prefer either one of those to a program that never tries to prevent anything but obligates us to cure everything.
    IMO, the most important aspect of legalization is that it would eliminate black markets. That's why I don't like the half-ass solutions (like legalizing only pot). Legalizing (all) drugs won't fix any drugs problems, but it'll dramatically reduce violence.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #53
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    IMO, the most important aspect of legalization is that it would eliminate black markets. That's why I don't like the half-ass solutions. Legalizing drugs won't fix any drugs problems, but it'll dramatically reduce violence.
    I think the current system works pretty well. I don't want to legalize drugs and somehow legitimize behaviors that should remain stigmatized. I'd actually like to control alcohol better as well as I think alcohol abuse destroys relationships and families. Fact is, though, we need to attack the root cause of addiction, which is the way people deal with suffering. Substance abuse is fleeing pain, which, ironically, leads to more pain and suffering.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #54
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    IMO, the most important aspect of legalization is that it would eliminate black markets. That's why I don't like the half-ass solutions (like legalizing only pot). Legalizing (all) drugs won't fix any drugs problems, but it'll dramatically reduce violence.
    Well, theoretically, you could legalize stuff like pot and ecstacy, and also not go after users.That would instead allow there to be a lot more money for going after dealers of hard drugs. Just a thought.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #55
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Haven't we heard this song before?

    Zago, whats up with you and drug culture?

  6. #56
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I think the current system works pretty well. I don't want to legalize drugs and somehow legitimize behaviors that should remain stigmatized. I'd actually like to control alcohol better as well as I think alcohol abuse destroys relationships and families. Fact is, though, we need to attack the root cause of addiction, which is the way people deal with suffering. Substance abuse is fleeing pain, which, ironically, leads to more pain and suffering.

    The government shouldn't be in the business of stigmatizing behavior that doesn't affect other people. If someone is addicted to crack and he robs someone to feed his addiction, you punish him for robbery. If someone is addicted to crack and he just wants to live in his shitty apartment and not do anything, well, that is sad but it doesn't hurt everyone else. There should be more freedom AND more responsibility in this society. Adultery should be stigmatized. We don't go arresting and stoning adulterers in the U.S. Should we be doing that?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #57
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    We don't go stoning adulterers. Should we be doing that?
    Don't you think we have enough stoned adulterers already?

  8. #58
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avolkiteshvara View Post
    Haven't we heard this song before?

    Zago, whats up with you and drug culture?
    This thread doesn't really have anything to do with drug culture itself. I have a lot of other problems with the society and the government and I post about those from time to time as well, but drugs is perhaps the easiest and most obvious one to pick on. My second most recent thread is an indictment of the education system in America.

    Other problems I could talk about seem so obvious that I feel they are hardly worth mentioning, but maybe I'm wrong. Gay marriage, for instance. You've got to be beyond brainwashed to want to outlaw marriage for gays. You've got to be a fucking moron. These people are like fucking Hitler. If I really thought you guys needed education on this matter, I'd be angrily posting about it.

    Other major problems I have that I think should be obvious to anyone with a brain, and have posted about occasionally, are the level of freedom of speech, the rampant, sickening level of materialism in this country, the retarded war in Iraq, the mixing of religion and government, lofty politicians who are bought and sold puppets...

    I mean, the list goes on, but never have I been directly and noticeably affected by any of those things on such a regular basis. Perhaps I should speak out more against them, though, now that you mention it. Really, though, I'm outraged at my inability to use psychedelics like I want to be able to. If I weren't interested in taking drugs myself, it would probably be one of the things that I'd still have the same opinion about but wouldn't fight so much over.

    So no, it isn't just this topic. It's so many topics that if I thought about it all the time, I'd be a very angry person. I'd like to stick, for now, to arguing about ones that I think are both blatantly obvious and largely ignored. I mean, gay marriage was on the ballot and voted for. Drug freedom isn't even close.

    Lastly, drugs seemed to kind of burst my bubble when I was in high school and was brainwashed like most other people. I distinctly remember a time when I believed what I was taught in health class, that if you take illegal drugs you are basically fucking doomed and your life is fucked up as hell. Then I met this kid who said he smoked pot regularly and got a 1400-something on his SAT and was a finely functioning person. I couldn't believe it, but he proved it to me, and at that point everything started to fall apart and I got a chip on my shoulder because I had been lied to by people who educated me and made my laws. I'm not exaggerating when I say that this period in my life was like an awakening--it's when I began to think for myself.

    Yeah, drugs fuckin scare me and I have respect for them, but god dammit I don't like to be told what I can and can't do unless there is a good fucking proof that if I do it I am going to harm other people. They outlawed salvia in my home state this month because some 12 year old shot and killed his friend and happened to be a salvia user--it is unknown whether he was actually on salvia at the time. And frankly, he would have had to have taken a really fucking small dose to have the ability to shoot and kill someone while tripping. If we are going to ban every drug that murderers have ever used, well, I don't think I need to say this but alcohol needs to be fucking banned.

    But it doesn't. Life doesn't come with a safety guarantee. I choose freedom over guaranteeing that I'm not gonna get scratched in my lifetime. Besides, alcohol is more dangerous and addictive than almost every single psychedelic drug. This fact alone fucks with my head so bad that I can't shut up about it.

    Is that enough? Do I need to clarify any more? It's one of those topics that if you get me started, I won't shut up for a long time. I watched those youtube vids and had to say something.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    You've got to be beyond brainwashed to want to outlaw marriage for gays. You've got to be a fucking moron. These people are like fucking Hitler.
    Could you tell me how you really feel about this topic? I'm not sure you were clear enough ...

    I-71%, N-80%, F-74%, P-96%

  10. #60
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Heh, I love threads like this. Reminds me why the laws are around to protect people from themselves. And why it is vastly better to have reps do it, rather than direct democracy.

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