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  1. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I didn't make clear that I am trying to quit. I would say I have quit, but it seems too soon to declare victory.
    And be prepared for the relapse and the relapses.

    For relapses are part of the process of learning a new distinction.

    A distinction has two sides - so it distinguishes one side from the other.

    But to learn a new distinction, we need to learn both sides of the new distinction.

    So if you are learning to be a non-smoker, you need to learn what it is like to not smoke as against what it is like to smoke.

    So relapses are an inherent and necessary part of learning not to smoke.

    Just as 'relapses' are a necessary part of learning any new distinction.

    And once you learn the distinction between smoking and non smoking, you can generalise this and learn how to make distinctions - you can learn how to learn.

    Give a man a fish and you satisfy his hunger. But give a man a fishing line and he can catch his own fish.

  2. #372
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The way you see the world is misinformed.
    How so? Am I to believe prostitution and gambling and drunkenness are how men and women are intended to live? Gambling and drugs and alcohol and moral weakness inflict more pain and suffering on the poor and uneducated than anything you can possibly imagine.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #373
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Gambling and drugs and alcohol and moral weakness inflict more pain and suffering on the poor and uneducated than anything you can possibly imagine.
    I don't disagree, necessarily, but only one of those four things is illegal. I don't hold this opinion because I think drugz R awesum, it's because I think consistency isn't too much to ask from our legal system. And since I don't think it would work to outlaw alcohol, gambling, or moral weakness, I think we would be better served to bring how we approach other drugs in line with how we approach alcohol and tobacco. That doesn't preclude making it an unattractive choice in other ways. I don't need something to be illegal to strongly discourage my children from engaging in it.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't disagree, necessarily, but only one of those four things is illegal. I don't hold this opinion because I think drugz R awesum, it's because I think consistency isn't too much to ask from our legal system. And since I don't think it would work to outlaw alcohol, gambling, or moral weakness, I think we would be better served to bring how we approach other drugs in line with how we approach alcohol and tobacco. That doesn't preclude making it an unattractive choice in other ways. I don't need something to be illegal to strongly discourage my children from engaging in it.
    Crack cocaine is not equivalent to slot machines, so I don't see how things could be consistent. Even if you successful encourage your kids to avoid alcohol, for example, it still affects the rest of society. Your family is not an island unto itself, hence the reason we regulate behavior at all.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #375
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    How so? Am I to believe prostitution and gambling and drunkenness are how men and women are intended to live? Gambling and drugs and alcohol and moral weakness inflict more pain and suffering on the poor and uneducated than anything you can possibly imagine.
    What you do not get is that there is a big difference between something being WRONG and making it ILLEGAL. Making victimless crimes illegal makes them far worse for society than letting them stay legal. Things don't have to be illegal for them to be wrong, neither does something being illegal make it wrong. Your whole premise is that most people in our country (including your) can't tell if something is bad or not unless the government says so.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #376
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Crack cocaine is not equivalent to slot machines, so I don't see how things could be consistent. Even if you successful encourage your kids to avoid alcohol, for example, it still affects the rest of society. Your family is not an island unto itself, hence the reason we regulate behavior at all.

    Slot machines are legal where they exist, and a lot of people ruin their lives on them. Are you suggesting that forcing people to go to bookies or illegal craps games is better than having slot machines?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #377
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Crack cocaine is not equivalent to slot machines, so I don't see how things could be consistent. Even if you successful encourage your kids to avoid alcohol, for example, it still affects the rest of society. Your family is not an island unto itself, hence the reason we regulate behavior at all.
    Alcohol's already legal. Are you arguing for making it illegal? As far as I knew this thread was about legalization or decriminalization, not total deregulation.

    Consistency, to me, would be treating similarly-harmful substances similarly. I agree that crack is wack, but I don't agree that pot is enough more harmful than alcohol to justify it being illegal while alcohol is merely regulated. And I'm not personally invested in making it legal; my life wouldn't change if it were.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    What you do not get is that there is a big difference between something being WRONG and making it ILLEGAL. Making victimless crimes illegal makes them far worse for society than letting them stay legal. Things don't have to be illegal for them to be wrong, neither does something being illegal make it wrong. Your whole premise is that most people in our country (including your) can't tell if something is bad or not unless the government says so.
    If something is unequivocally bad and harmful for people, why not make it illegal?

    Also, none of these things are victimless behaviors. Gambling, for example, causes untold suffering for families. It's more a question of deciding what we can reasonably control.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #379
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Alcohol's already legal. Are you arguing for making it illegal? As far as I knew this thread was about legalization or decriminalization, not total deregulation.

    Consistency, to me, would be treating similarly-harmful substances similarly. I agree that crack is wack, but I don't agree that pot is enough more harmful than alcohol to justify it being illegal while alcohol is merely regulated. And I'm not personally invested in making it legal; my life wouldn't change if it were.
    I advocate greater regulation of alcohol. For sure. To my mind, it's more bringing back the blue laws that were common practice before we liberalized things. Alcohol has no place in amusement parks, for example. In my opinion.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #380
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    If something is unequivocally bad and harmful for people, why not make it illegal?
    Well, let's see: drugs are not unequivocally bad and harmful, since people can and do use them without serious consequences every day.


    Also, none of these things are victimless behaviors. Gambling, for example, causes untold suffering for families. It's more a question of deciding what we can reasonably control.
    You are wrong. If some man gives a woman $100 for a blow job, who is victimized? If a college student smokes a joint and listens to Radiohead, who is victimized? If I buy a lottery ticket, who is victimized?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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