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  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Do you use heroine? Are there people you know that use heroine? Do they use it responsibly?
    I don't think you understand.

    There is a world wide market for narcotics.

    This market is legal and safe.

    And as I understand it, narcotics are mainly used for the relief of pain.

    You seem to be obsessively focused on the illegal use of heroin. And are ignoring the huge legal market for narcotics.

    We have been growing for and selling on this market for some time. And at the same time we are a signatory the world-wide treaty on illegal drugs.

    For instance the hospitals around me use narcotics responsibly, as do other institutions like palliative care hospices and of course the armed forces.

    And patients are prescribed narcotics for their own use.

    This is a huge legal market which we supply. And we compete with other countries which supply this market as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that your country also supplies this market.

    And we would like to include the Afghan crop in this market.

    We would like to take the Afghan crop off the illegal market and put it on the legal market.

    Perhaps I am wrong but it seems you don't seem to understand there is already a large world-wide legal market for narcotics.

  2. #292
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    -All drugs would be legalized and regulated.

    -Safety standards would be put in place, under the authority of the FDA.

    -As far as production and sales goes, for stronger drugs, you would have to get some sort of licensing from the government in order to do so legally. The cost barrier shouldn't be too steep, otherwise you'll end up with a black market again. The idea is that you want drugs to be cheap enough that illegal dealers can't sell any cheaper, but you want them to be expensive enough that the government can exert control over the quality and distribution.

    -All drugs would be taxed, much like alcohol and cigarettes are now. This money would be used for treatment and the small amount of enforcement that would still be required. The more dangerous the drug, the higher the tax so people are encouraged to use lighter, safer drugs. But this must be done within reason. Again, you don't want any drugs to be so expensive that you encourage a black market.

    -I wouldn't necessarily be against the government keeping statistics on the buyers of harder drugs. We could require identification to purchase any (previously illegal) drug. Companies selling those drugs would have to comply, or face fines and the loss of their license. That information would be useful in implementing an effective treatment plan. We could also keep track of individuals who were purchasing suspiciously large amounts of drugs (perhaps selling to minors, etc). No one would go to prison for drug possession. Addicts would be able to seek treatment with no fear of being prosecuted.

    -The amount of drugs any individual can purchase at any one time would be limited. I don't know what the exact amount should be, but something like...no one should be able to buy more than a week's supply in a day. And if an individual purchases a week's supply and are back the next day for more, that should set off a red flag requiring further investigation (to see if they are reselling to minors, etc).

    -Illegal dealers would still be sent to prison, but now they would have an avenue to produce legally. They would face competition from large corporations, though. They probably wouldn't be able to manufacture drugs as cheaply. This would eventually force the cartels out of business or into legitimacy.

    -Also, pot would not be considered a hard drug. Anyone would be able to grow pot, no licenses required. This would make it virtually impossible to tax. But I'm sure some companies would make money selling "premium pot", or something like that. That's just a reality people need to accept, pot is difficult/impossible to control.

    This was written pretty quickly, so I probably didn't cover all my bases.
    It's good for a rough sketch though. I'd really like to see a way where all drug taxes make the government agency assigned to regulating the licenses and distribution self-sustaining, as well as rehab centers being entirely funded by drug sales and taxes. I don't think everyone should be allowed to grow pot.. I think it ought to have the same limitations that alcohol does.

    I'd also like to see WAY stricter punishments for (illegally) selling any drugs, especially to minors, and more strict punishments against kids caught with drugs, the harder the drug the bigger the punishment.

    In the end, I couldn't care less what people do with their personal lives, but my strong bias against drugs based on my experiences makes me think there's no way I could see heroine on the shelf next to the nutter'butters. I feel like someone else's wants are enroaching upon my personal life. I would choose not to indulge in these things if they became legal, but I don't think I'm ready to see heroine on the shelf.

    As an alternative, (excluding pot) what about picking a popular drug that is borderline 'hard' (I'm no drug expert.. obviously.) and giving it a year's probationary period? Set up the government agency meant to control, and have that one drug set up in the system? I would be okay with this, I think. If I didn't see employees coming to work messed up, or places being robbed for the drugs people couldn't afford, and it didn't seem to make a big difference one way or the other.. then my hard judgements on it could be proven wrong, forcing me to change my thought process on the entire subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Alcohol can kill you the first time. Cigarettes, when used properly, often kill you eventually. This is a silly argument.
    If someone gets sold some crappy dope and it screws them up, they can't go sue that person. I can imagine the law suits piling up for something new like this, is what I meant. We sue McDonalds for giving us hot coffee.
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  3. #293
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    world stuff here.
    I get that it's worldwide. I just don't care about what happens in Australia, to be honest, when it comes to drugs. Or the rest of the world. I care about what's here. I don't try to look at other countries as some massive standard to live up to, nor do I look down on other countries for not being just like us. They do their thing as they see fit and I'll do my thing.
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  4. #294
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    If someone gets sold some crappy dope and it screws them up, they can't go sue that person. I can imagine the law suits piling up for something new like this, is what I meant. We sue McDonalds for giving us hot coffee.
    That is pretty good incentive for pharmaceutical companies to make cleaner, purer drugs, isn't it? The fear of being destroyed by lawsuits.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #295
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    We sue McDonalds for giving us hot coffee.
    To be fair, that's only really when they have been warned hundreds of times times about the temperature, and then refuse to acknowledge any issue, forcing the case, which showed they were negligent. It's actually a good example of how the system is suppose to work.

    In that regard, legalizing is a good idea... just as there is an argument for legalizing some drugs, although the comments about prohibition aren't fair - people respond differently to things being withdrawn than they do with it being included. Taxation is also the best way to reduce the desire to have something when it is present... it's a lousy way of reducing demand when it is already illegal.

  6. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I just don't care about what happens in Australia, to be honest, when it comes to drugs. Or the rest of the world. I care about what's here. I don't try to look at other countries as some massive standard to live up to, nor do I look down on other countries for not being just like us. They do their thing as they see fit and I'll do my thing.
    But we don't do our own thing. We are party to exactly the same treaties you are party to.

    You seem to take an extreme and ridiculous parochial view when narcotics are traded both legally and illegally across the world.

    And you substitute an absurd parochial morality for understanding of the market.

    I don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about.

    It seems to me to be an extreme form of narcissism.

    And it is just this kind of narcissism that leads to taking illegal drugs.

  7. #297
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    ^ you weren't *totally* arguing against me on something? ..I suppose I'll have to make something special for dinner to celebrate.

    Like I said, I'm not alone on my very black-and-white bias with drugs. In my mind, it just makes sense. All drugs = not safe, people complain about the drugs that are already legal, so why put more into the system? If I saw in a probationary period, however, rehab centers being funded with drug sales, education being wider, people getting help that were scared to before, self-sustaining or even profitting government agencies and businesses, and all the other things I mentioned above, my judgements could be swayed. I haven't seen it yet though.

    Let me see a probationary period of a single drug proposed to be voted on, I guarantee you I will be there voting for it. Does that sound like a far compromise?

    I can't help but see the negatives on it all, and feel strongly on those negatives.. but I'm willing to admit I'm no expert on the matter and if safety proved to prevail in this I could be swayed. As of right now though, to go from zero to hero, No thank you. It's too much, all at once.
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  8. #298
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    But we don't do our own thing. We are party to exactly the same treaties you are party to.

    You seem to take an extreme and ridiculous parochial view when narcotics are traded both legally and illegally across the world.

    And you substitute an absurd parochial morality for understanding of the market.

    I don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about.

    It seems to me to be an extreme form of narcissism.

    And it is just this kind of narcissism that leads to taking illegal drugs.
    Yes. I've seen how destructive drugs are, my mind says "drugs are being complained about that are already legal. Why would I support adding more?" and thus I don't think all drugs being legal would be some saving grace of America. If that makes me narcissistic, then I'm glad to be one.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  9. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post

    Let me see a probationary period of a single drug proposed to be voted on, I guarantee you I will be there voting for it. Does that sound like a far compromise?
    Definitely a step in the right direction.

  10. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I wholeheartedly approve of the Evelyn Waugh signature.
    Cool! Thanks.

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