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  1. #211
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I've only got some fuzzy ideas for now. They have potential to be fleshed out. My advice to others is simply to investigate it more.
    I'd like to hear more. I'm too lazy to investigate on my own right now.


    Apparently, yes. The issue wasn't whether that happened, the issue is which is better... having to deal with these criminals, or a heavilly intoxicated society.
    I see this choice as misleading. We had a "heavily intoxicated society" even during prohibition.

    I don't see any way we can actually reduce drug use without seriously infringing on freedom, like North Korea and Saudi Arabia.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #212
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    It's also a compromise in our nations' morals and values. If there's legalization, without government aid in supplying it, the reduction in crime, violence and corruption would be minor.
    Morality? Pfft. Law isn't about morality. It's about practicality. If what you care about is morality, go to church.

    The reduction in crime, etc would be minor? What do you use to base this claim? Personally, I'd much rather see cocaine for sale at the local drug store than by some gang banger at a playground. But maybe that's just me.

    I disagree, and this rebuttal seems like a cop-out to me. Since when does someone's farts do anything but tingle the nostril? Give me a break. Have you spent a minute of your life in a big city? Have you ever met a junky? Have you been in areas where drugs are rampant? Set the legal issues aside, heavy drugs are a parasite on society and for it to be condoned through legalization...
    I've lived in 5 different major cities, and my opinion is...junkies are pests, nothing more, sort of like a fart. Now dealers, they're dangerous. They'll kill to protect their territory. They don't care who gets caught in the crossfire.

    Welp, not gonna happen. Not in your lifetime.
    Wanna put money on that? Each successive generation is more open to the idea. Eventually, it will happen. The only question is when.

    You obviously missed the point I was making. A "black market" has nothing to do with it.
    The black market has everything to do with it. You don't want to talk about it, because its existence destroys your stance.

    Negative. When did I say there were no problems tacked to prohibition? I've made my argument and message very clear. I'll sum it up again for you:
    It's an endless war, with costs, yes. The drug business would be just as dangerous and detrimental to society were it to be legalized without government aid. Were the government to get involved, condone it, tax it whatever, that's a big compromise in morals. There's already programs funded to help people get off the stuff, now we're going to supply it? Ass backwards.
    I want the government to tax it. They can treat drugs like cigarettes and alcohol. You can't drive while you're high. You can't use in public. Minors can't buy them. I'd even be open to the idea of the government subsidizing this. They already waste billions with the hardline approach. I'd be fine spending those billions on treatment and whatnot. At the very least, the profits wouldn't be going into the pockets of drug cartels.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #213
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    What are heavy drugs good for but an addiction? There isn't one redeeming quality to them, yet countless negative ones. It's basic logic, dude. You may very well see weed legalized in your lifetime, it might be closer than we know, but you can't compare weed to speed.

  4. #214
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    What are heavy drugs good for but an addiction? There isn't one redeeming quality to them, yet countless negative ones.
    They make you feel really good. Instant redemption.

  5. #215
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    What are heavy drugs good for but an addiction? There isn't one redeeming quality to them, yet countless negative ones. It's basic logic, dude.
    /facepalm
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #216
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    What are heavy drugs good for but an addiction? There isn't one redeeming quality to them, yet countless negative ones. It's basic logic, dude. You may very well see weed legalized in your lifetime, it might be closer than we know, but you can't compare weed to speed.

    There are many legitimate uses for hard drugs. Cocaine is used in eye surgery because it's an excellent topical anesthetic. It's also one of the most effective ways to sober up someone who is suffering alcohol poisoning. Opiates are used for intense pain EVERY day, and many people do not get addicted. Ever heard of Percocet? Same chemical base as heroin. Doctors prescribe Desoxyn for people with major ADHD. That's meth, for Christ's sake. All of these drugs were discovered by scientists and doctors.

    Also, as I've stated before, recreational use of hard drugs can actually be a positive experience. I had many positive experiences with cocaine, but I cut it out when I realized that "having a party" = "doing a ton of blow" for me at that point. But I've had some of the most fun times of my life on drugs. The pleasure is sometimes worth it.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #217
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Most hard drugs do have a legitimate medicinal use (mmmn, laudanum). However, how out-of-control would it get if we kept track of sales as much we do cough medicine now?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #218
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    There you go, fixed.
    It isn't though - what you changed my comment to is your argument, not mine. I'm personally against myself taking any kind drugs and I follow that with an uncompromising attitude. I do, however, know a lot of people who take drugs. And I'm not preaching to them about the harm they do. They can and will do it.

    What I'm talking about is social good. This concept isn't related to the inherently morality of self determination that is being brought up, it's a measurement of efficiency - impact other actions have on you, even if they aren't direct. Yes, I know, I'll hear that each individual has no responsibility to other men, but the reality is that there is a social framework that supports our society - much of it generated by the codified laws that define how force is used within that society. It is the counterpoint to the argument that drug wars have done more harm than good. Note that I also think that the drugs wars, in its current form, is ridiculous. But disagreeing with where the line is drawn is way different than saying there should be no line.

  9. #219
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Obviously, I'm not talking of heavy drugs as used for medicinal purposes in a controlled manner. I'm talking of walking into a drug store and buying heroin because I want to get high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Morality? Pfft. Law isn't about morality. It's about practicality. If what you care about is morality, go to church.
    You serious? Moral decency and religion aren't one in the same. A few examples: Sex in public is against the law. In a store with explicit magazines (minus adult stores where you must be carded to enter) it is law to have the black plastic sheet over the covers where young wondering eyes won't see. I could come up with dozens more if I wanted to take the time, but I think you get my point. Some things are deemed indecent in American society. Condonement for abuse of toxic/addictive substances is one of them.

    This debate is going in circles at this point, so I'm gonna chime out now.

  10. #220
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Obviously, I'm not talking of heavy drugs as used for medicinal purposes in a controlled manner. I'm talking of walking into a drug store and buying heroin because I want to get high.


    You serious? Moral decency and religion aren't one in the same. A few examples: Sex in public is against the law. In a store with explicit magazines (minus adult stores where you must be carded to enter) it is law to have the black plastic sheet over the covers where young wondering eyes won't see. I could come up with dozens more if I wanted to take the time, but I think you get my point. Some things are deemed indecent in American society. Condonement for abuse of toxic/addictive substances is one of them.

    This debate is going in circles at this point, so I'm gonna chime out now.
    So what's your problem with people using drugs privately again?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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