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  1. #191
    EvanTheClown (ETC) Clownmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    So? They nearly ruined your life and they are fucking illegal. Goes to show that illegality didn't work. They would have done the same had they been legal. Or maybe they wouldn't have! You can't prove it.
    But if they have the easy capability of ruining lives, i'd rather them be discouraged than just open-door allowed.

    Because you can't spell "Slaughter" without "Laughter"

  2. #192
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Well, now you're getting into the question of free will. If someone invented a mind control device that actually manipulated people totally beyond their control into mass suicide, then yes, the government should intervene.

    But choosing to use dangerous substances is a personal decision. I'll even support the idea of governmental insistence that the producers of such substances be forthright in making the public aware of the potentially dangerous consequences of choosing to use them, and I absolutely support age restrictions on the sales...but if an adult actively chooses to sit at home shooting heroin all day, I don't see any reason we should be compelled to stop him.
    Where are you drawing the line? When is free will lacking enough that intervention is allowed? Some would argue that people with serious drug addictions have had their individual will compromised. I don't reject the notion that a line could be drawn, but I'd like some good reasons for why you pick the point you do.

    Secondly, how far would you allow this self-destruction to go? Obviously the example I'm about to give is outlandish, but for the argument, bare with me. What if a cause of self-destruction, in spite of being entirely the product of free will, was killing about a million or so people in this country a year? Would you still feel there is no need to interverne simply because of the rights of individual will? If yes, how high would I have to make the number of people dying before you'd finally permit intervention?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #193
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Should people who are less productive because of drug use be given federal aid?


    And I mean, I think there should be a scale, man. People can smoke all the pot they want, but what about PCP?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #194
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Drugs should be illegal. They are illegal. There is nothing to argue. The bums have lost, Mr. Lebowski. Get a job, sir!
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #195
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Where are you drawing the line? When is free will lacking enough that intervention is allowed? Some would argue that people with serious drug addictions have had their individual will compromised. I don't reject the notion that a line could be drawn, but I'd like some good reasons for why you pick the point you do.

    Secondly, how far would you allow this self-destruction to go? Obviously the example I'm about to give is outlandish, but for the argument, bare with me. What if a cause of self-destruction, in spite of being entirely the product of free will, was killing about a million or so people in this country a year? Would you still feel there is no need to interverne simply because of the rights of individual will? If yes, how high would I have to make the number of people dying before you'd finally permit intervention?
    Free will is lacking enough when free will is actually compromised...which never actually happens in real life. As long as you haven't been misled about the effects and consequences, you are responsible for anything that happens to you as a result of using drugs, because you chose to take that risk.

    So if a million people a year decided to commit suicide, well, that'd be their business. I don't see why I should be able to tell you that you can't decide to remove yourself from the world.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #196
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Drugs should be illegal. They are illegal. There is nothing to argue. The bums have lost, Mr. Lebowski. Get a job, sir!

    Ironclad forensics there.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #197
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Free will is lacking enough when free will is actually compromised...which never actually happens in real life.
    That's a very strong assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    As long as you haven't been misled about the effects and consequences, you are responsible for anything that happens to you as a result of using drugs, because you chose to take that risk.
    Does being lied to by omission count as being mislead? If it does, then you'd have a very hard time proving that anyone hasn't been mislead in that manner, which would create great complications.

    Secondly, this might be a matter of compassion. A lot of people seriously regret these decisions, and the results can be life ruining. Doesn't it seem like a drag to just let people mistakenly ruin their own lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    So if a million people a year decided to commit suicide, well, that'd be their business. I don't see why I should be able to tell you that you can't decide to remove yourself from the world.
    This wouldn't strike you as a disturbing trend? I think it would be preferable to try and remove the cause for all of this suicide. I typically don't think masses upon masses of people being driven to destroy themselves is desirable.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #198
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I think at a certain point all this suicide would have a detrimental effect on the rest of the populace -- emotionally, mentally, not to mention all the body disposal, grave digging, etc. The funeral business would be booming, though.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #199
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    Marijuana should be legalized, but I'm not sure about some of the harder drugs. Alcohol is just as bad, if not worse than Marijuana.

  10. #200
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is a poor comparison for the drug issue. First, murder directly infringes on the rights of other individuals. Second, laws against murder actually reduce the number of murders (the same can't be said about drug laws). Drug enforcement simply fails.
    You're right, murder does directly infringe on another's rights and it is more severe and a more blatant display. However, those that abuse substances are on the track of slow suicide. Not only that, but drug usage gives way to robbery and burglary, neglect of family and children, mismanagement of finances, altered state of mind that can result in severe mood swings and odd behaviors, and the list goes on. What's the benefit to legalizing hard drugs? An escape from reality? That's productive. Basic liberties? Restraints are put on freedoms that carry too many risks.


    In this case, lets make it illegal for you to fart in public since that affects others as well.
    Speaking of poor comparisons... Reflect on my last bit.


    You have to measure this against the costs of fighting that war. My opinion is that it costs too much money and too many lives. And the fact that first world nations like the US doom nations like Mexico and Colombia to eternal political corruption is a cost anti-drug people simply don't want to acknowledge. They blame the nation's culture or whatever other excuse they can pull out of their ass.
    How many of our "wars" are doomed to fail? Just about all of them, if your measure is for complete eradication. Why is vehicular speeding against the law? Because it's unsafe, to you and potentially to others. When there is ample risk and not one redeeming quality to suggest leniency for an act, it should be banned. -- Someone mentioned Communism... How about common sense.

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