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  1. #171
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    What is one benefit to legalizing heroin, crack or amphetamines?
    I thought about it earlier in the thread. Other than the basic freedom of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Legal-worthy points about meth and heroin:
    1. Legalized means standardized. Especially important for heroin, as many overdoses are the result of unexpectedly pure substance.
    2. Less control in the hands of extremely dangerous drug kingpins.
    3. In the case of meth, no more home-methlabs. That's a fuckin plus.
    4. Help for addicts: no longer will helpless addiction lead to felony charges, but actual help. They won't be running from the law.
    5. Information about the hazardous nature of these drugs will not disappear. They will still be obtainable for those who want them, but they will now be able to buy them in a safer way--safer for everyone. Even kids know not to do these drugs.

  2. #172
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    How do you know that it wouldn't make the unhappy people happier? Weed made me happier when I went through a depressing few months. The information and knowledge about drug use won't disappear. Do you really think that a person who avoided smoking heroin their whole lives is suddenly going to start and get addicted now that it is suddenly legal?

    But let's face the obvious. They wouldn't just legalize every drug at the same time. If legalization were to occur they would probably start with weed and certain psychedelics. Those have a low danger of addiction and abuse. The people who want to do those drugs but don't because of the law is very, very low. We wouldn't get many new drug users. Not that it would be a bad thing if we did, with those light drugs.

    That is exactly why so many will use it if it ever becomes legal. Since it will make them happy. That is why people consume it in the first place.


    Also you can make an argument that for this you will need a lot of new farming land. Since consumption will grow over the time if it becomes legal.
    Especially since it will be lucrative branch, so it will spark interests of big business.

  3. #173
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    That is exactly why so many will use it if it ever becomes legal. Since it will make them happy. That is why people consume it in the first place.


    Also you can make an argument that for this you will need a lot of new farming land. Since consumption will grow over the time if it becomes legal.
    Especially since it will be lucrative branch, so it will spark interests of big business.
    So I am to understand that drugs are and should be illegal because:
    1. They will make us dangerously happy
    and
    2. There isn't enough farm land... even though it can be grown indoors and with hydroponics.

    Hm.

  4. #174
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    So I am to understand that drugs are and should be illegal because:
    1. They will make us dangerously happy
    and
    2. There isn't enough farm land... even though it can be grown indoors and with hydroponics.

    Hm.
    I doubt that we will synchronize our opinions. Since we have J/P conflict and I am from Eastern Europe. While you are from the US I get it right.

    You are right I don't think that happiness at all costs is a good idea.

    Yes it can be grown indoors but once you make them fully legal the mass production will start.
    In a way full drug legalization can be very good tool for controling people to quite extensive level and I doubt that you want that.

  5. #175
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    In a way full drug legalization can be very good tool for controling people to quite extensive level...
    And yes, in Aldous Huxley's dystopian novel, "Brave New World", the Soma plant is a popular dream-inducing drug. It provides an easy escape from the hassles of daily life and is employed by the government as a method of control through pleasure. It is ubiquitous and ordinary among the culture of the novel and everyone is shown to use it at some point.

    The Soma plant is plainly weed.

  6. #176
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, theoretically, you could legalize stuff like pot and ecstacy, and also not go after users.That would instead allow there to be a lot more money for going after dealers of hard drugs. Just a thought.
    Cartels would still exist and dealers would still fight over turf. I see those as far bigger problems than whether or not a few extra people are doing drugs.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #177
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I'm always serious when it comes to addiction. Addiction is serious business. Legalization legitimizes drug use. Drugs should be controlled and stigmatized. People who sell drugs, from the smallest pot dealer to the big suppliers should be dealt with harshly so that everyone knows not to sell drugs. Use will diminish once you dismantle distribution.
    This does not work. We've already tried it and failed. Putting in more effort just raises the stakes, making cartels and dealers more violent. There's too much profit in it because it's a black market.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #178
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Let's go ahead and legalize murder, no amount of restraint or enforcement is going to stop it, so to hell with it right?
    This is a poor comparison for the drug issue. First, murder directly infringes on the rights of other individuals. Second, laws against murder actually reduce the number of murders (the same can't be said about drug laws). Drug enforcement simply fails.

    You can't say drugs and drug trade doesn't only affect the user. It affects those in proximity as well.
    In this case, lets make it illegal for you to fart in public since that affects others as well.

    A land needs to establish to some degree where it stands in it's principles; what's tolerated and what's not. Just because a "war on drugs" is endless, that doesn't mean it's not worth the fight. It's as much about taking a stand and saying: "Our country won't promote this behavior. It's not ok." If that doesn't fall in line with your personal values, tough luck. There's plenty of more "open minded" locations out there.
    You have to measure this against the costs of fighting that war. My opinion is that it costs too much money and too many lives. And the fact that first world nations like the US doom nations like Mexico and Colombia to eternal political corruption is a cost anti-drug people simply don't want to acknowledge. They blame the nation's culture or whatever other excuse they can pull out of their ass.

    There's nothing wrong with giving thorough thought to the subject and like I've said, it wouldn't surprise me or really even phase me if Marijuana were legalized. However, harsh, addictive drugs that are nothing but toxic, I wouldn't be ok with giving leniency to it's production, sale and usage.
    Unfortunately, this half measure wouldn't do much to curb violence or corruption.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #179
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    That is really, really Te. You want the government to push your opinion on people. Until loss of liberty results from drug use, it should not be a crime. Addicts are a pest for those who have to deal with them, but there is no loss of liberty. Most people who try drugs don't get addicted, and maybe a tiny sliver of a percent of people who try drugs wind up injuring or killing someone as a result of their drug use.

    Except for alcohol. Lots of people get hurt and hurt others on alcohol. The government tried to make alcohol illegal, and it failed gloriously. Go figure.
    Actually, he's vomiting Fe on everyone. Synarch doesn't use much T in his arguments in this thread. The ESFJ uses more T than he does.

    It's really difficult (and pretty much pointless) to debate anyone whose stance is not based on reality or practicality, rather some rigid moral code.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #180
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    In this case, lets make it illegal for you to fart in public since that affects others as well.
    +1

    just saying
    Quote Originally Posted by pippi View Post
    Fiver is correct, it is freeing to not have to impress someone, to be accepted for who you really are.

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