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  1. #141
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    If I killed someone, I would feel horrible guilt and expect punishment. Why do I have to tack on the fact that it is "immoral?" What the hell is it but a label for our actions that classify them as desirable or undesirable? Obviously there is no objective judge of it that we can all agree upon.
    Desirable to who? Undesirable to who? Who decides? What about people who lack guilt? What about when desires conflict? The way you decide is based on right and wrong. You learned this in preschool.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    So? I'm not trying to prove the morality of it or that it's a good thing. I'm trying to appeal to reason--the laws not only don't work, but cause violence, crappy product, and a restriction of freedom. People ignore those facts, and for what? I'm trying to prove to them that there is no reason to fear decriminalization.
    Failure to obey the law causes violence. Most people are able to follow the law. Freedom presents its own slavery, for example, the slavery of addiction for people who are incapable of self-governance. These people will fail under any rules, their own or others.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #143
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Desirable to who? Undesirable to who? Who decides? What about people who lack guilt? What about when desires conflict? The way you decide is based on right and wrong. You learned this in preschool.
    Desirable/undesirable to ME, the murderer.

    People who lack guilt: how can you call them immoral? Part of their brain that functions to keep them from doing things other people consider horrifying doesn't work. They need to be removed from society, but treated with humanity nonetheless.

    When desires conflict: exactly. There is no system of morality that can standardize everyone's desires.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Desirable/undesirable to ME, the murderer.

    People who lack guilt: how can you call them immoral? Part of their brain that functions to keep them from doing things other people consider horrifying doesn't work. They need to be removed from society, but treated with humanity nonetheless.

    When desires conflict: exactly. There is no system of morality that can standardize everyone's desires.
    If there is no concept of right and wrong, if I take something that is yours on what basis do you get it back? Because you desire to have it back?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #145
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Failure to obey the law causes violence. Most people are able to follow the law. Freedom presents its own slavery, for example, the slavery of addiction for people who are incapable of self-governance. These people will fail under any rules, their own or others.
    Fine, so forget those people. Or educate them more effectively. Beside the point.

    Failure to obey the law may cause violence, so laws should be written carefully so as not to ask to be broken. These laws suck dick so everyone breaks them, and there is violence.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Fine, so forget those people. Or educate them more effectively. Beside the point.

    Failure to obey the law may cause violence, so laws should be written carefully so as not to ask to be broken. These laws suck dick so everyone breaks them, and there is violence.
    People break the laws because they suck dick and there is violence.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #147
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    If there is no concept of right and wrong, if I take something that is yours on what basis do you get it back? Because you desire to have it back?
    Because everyone agrees that I should have it back, so there is a law saying you can't steal. We all like that law. You never hear anyone try to argue the case for decriminalization of robbery. And if they did, they have the right to, just like I am doing now by appealing to people's reason.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Because everyone agrees that I should have it back, so there is a law saying you can't steal. We all like that law. You never hear anyone try to argue the case for decriminalization of robbery. And if they did, they have the right to, just like I am doing now by appealing to people's reason.
    This is basically what we call morality. This consensus. Most people actually agree on what is right and wrong.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #149
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    People break the laws because they suck dick and there is violence.
    Why would people be violent, though, if there were no law to break and people could obtain drugs from sanctioned vendors rather than organized crime?

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Why would people be violent, though, if there were no law to break and people could obtain drugs from sanctioned vendors rather than organized crime?
    People are always violent if they're violent people.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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