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  1. #101
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Wow yeah, great plan. This has worked about as well as Communism.
    Wow, sarcasm, amiright? Wow! Great work!
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #102
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    But they do create civilization, yes. They form, chicken or egg, the structure around civilization.
    Yes, and it's the contention of social liberals that the structure around which civilization is built should only include as many restrictions on personal freedom as reasonably necessary for the safety and security of its citizens (from each other and from external threats.)

    Clearly we can't allow theft, murder, assault, etc., anything that infringes upon the rights of others by harming or endangering their person or property.

    I'm not quite sure how you intend to show that recreational drug use does this...the negative aspects of the drug trade are primarily due to the fact that it's forced to do business on the black market.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #103
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Wow, sarcasm, amiright? Wow! Great work!
    I'm just saying, it should be evident by now that all the harsh punishment in the world (short of 1984-style totalitarianism) isn't going to derail the illegal drug trade, or the black market for any substance for which humanity has an inherent and everlasting demand. Prohibition of alcohol is proof of that.

    Making these highly coveted substances illegal has produced such an extraordinary level of power for the drug lords. Mexican drug kingpin "El Chapo" made the Forbes billionaire list this past year...I mean, come on? Look at what's happening in Mexico.

    For that matter, look at what's happening here. Drug prohibition simply isn't practical; we have by far the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world and the drug war is only going worse and worse and wasting more money every day. Drugs certainly aren't becoming less available or more expensive, and the cost of pursuing enforcement of prohibition laws has become too high to make the whole endeavor practically feasible.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #104
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I'm pretty sure Washington and Jefferson and the rest of the homeboys would've put the jack boot on the neck of crack dealers slanging in their communities. What do you think?
    No, I don't think they would have done any such thing, since drugs were legal and no one gave a shit. People took laudanum for headaches. Jefferson grew hemp and stuck the White House with a $25,000 wine tab (adjusted for inflation).


    Yeah, might be 8th century. Whichever century people learned to stop coating their desire to get high in layers of high-minded philosophical bullshit about rights, ecology, etc. Mendacity is almost as odious as my sanctimony.
    That argument itself is mendacious. No one here is coating that desire at all. People have a right to get high. I will go further: it's good to get high sometimes.


    No, not when. WHY? Why did you quit? Stay with me, Cheech.
    I found that smoking weed all the time and hanging around people who did that and nothing else was not good for the motivation. I got very serious about my schoolwork, and I started to come out of the depression that had initially precipitated the drug use. Seeking solace in weed or blow or pills was beneficial for a while. As it went on, the pain subsided, and I enjoyed my college druggie days. Eventually, things can get boring. If all you do is get high, that is not fun or creative. It's a choice that the individual needs to make, though.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #105
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewelchild View Post
    Laws cannot address the root issues of things like drug addiction or cheating on a spouse.

    If I choose not to cheat because I'm afraid of the law, does it really make things better? There is still a distance and non-commitment in my heart, and yet I appear outwardly like everything is fine.

    Infidelity happens for a lot of different reasons. So does drug use and drug addiction. Plenty of "normal" or "good" people have lapses of good sense and cheat. Plenty of "normal/good" people use drugs, and unfortunately, some "normal/good" people get addicted. It's ignorant to lump all these people in one group as if they're lowlifes and scum. That's the sort of attitude that will keep people hiding in their problems instead of seeking help.
    Laws cannot address root issues but they can and do encourage or discourage behaviors.

    Likewise, law enforcement provides mechanisms for dealing with people who simply make mistakes. Unfortunately, most people either follow the rules or they don't on their own. So, law enforcement exists mainly for criminals and lowlifes, ie. people who cannot or will not control themselves and conform to the law.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #106
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    "If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."

    - Thomas Jefferson
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #107
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, I don't think they would have done any such thing, since drugs were legal and no one gave a shit. People took laudanum for headaches. Jefferson grew hemp and stuck the White House with a $25,000 wine tab (adjusted for inflation).
    People take codeine for headaches, which is fine as long as it's for, you know, a fucking headache. Getting drunk on a glass of wine is a far cry from smoking dusted weed, my friend.

    I found that smoking weed all the time and hanging around people who did that and nothing else was not good for the motivation. I got very serious about my schoolwork, and I started to come out of the depression that had initially precipitated the drug use. Seeking solace in weed or blow or pills was beneficial for a while. As it went on, the pain subsided, and I enjoyed my college druggie days. Eventually, things can get boring. If all you do is get high, that is not fun or creative. It's a choice that the individual needs to make, though.
    Maybe your depression was prolonged by drug abuse.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    "If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."

    - Thomas Jefferson
    What's the context of the original quote? You can quote me championing bestiality and killing babies if you just pull out a sentence here and there.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  9. #109
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'm not quite sure how you intend to show that recreational drug use does this...the negative aspects of the drug trade are primarily due to the fact that it's forced to do business on the black market.
    Absolute freedom doesn't exist because everything we do impacts others. It isn't just about violence done to others - the legal framework allows lies, sometimes, but not in contract. It's arbitrary. Creating a legal market for dangerous goods doesn't make things better for the individuals, contrary to popular belief. It's like restricting poisons - large scale versions. Or explosives. Hell, take it to an extreme, like nuclear weapons. It's always going to be a matter of degree. All of the arbitrary prevention laws are similar in this regard.

    Keep in mind that I'm laughing at the blanket statements and feel good ideology. I'm no fan of the current schedule of drugs, or the criminalization of the general populace.

  10. #110
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    People take codeine for headaches, which is fine as long as it's for, you know, a fucking headache. Getting drunk on a glass of wine is a far cry from smoking dusted weed, my friend.
    And drinking your liver into cirrhosis is a far cry from smoking a joint and watching Harold and Kumar. It's the context of the situation and the maturity of the actors. Our current laws don't take this into account.



    Maybe your depression was prolonged by drug abuse.
    No. I would have been depressed either way. It was a nice crutch for a while, then it became a lifestyle, and then I got sick of it and moved on. Millions of people do the same thing.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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