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  1. #91
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    I talked to a mormon friend last night, he told me that even if the baptized don't accept what has been done for them, they will still be placed into one of the levels of mormon heaven. They have no choice about the matter at all. No matter how you slice it, people become mormon against their will.

  2. #92
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    Just because Mormon say it so don't make it so. But I see what you're getting at.
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
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    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
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    "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them" Maya Angelou.
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    I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" Gandhi
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  3. #93
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    everyone knows organized religion is bullsheit. The kingdom of heaven resides within.

  4. #94
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    I'm gonna write a thing or two here because i think i share the same view as cafe in faith and belief. of coarse she can always say what she wants, but i think i can help explain too

    How do your beliefs deal with those who have never had the opportunity to be baptised in this life? Do you personally believe that God condemns those souls to hell?
    baptism is not essential to go to heaven. It is a symbol of the washing away our sins. its a statement to the whole church that you've decided to have a relationship with Jesus Christ and that we know we cannot get to heaven by just doing "good deads", but that the only way to heaven is through Jesus.

    God doesnt condemn people to hell. People choose that path on their own. Just because you baptise somebody doesnt mean that you put a wool over God/Jesus's eyes. If you were able to fool him, what kind of God would he be? I mean seriously think about it...would you be comfortable know that this God that leads us and has a plan, could be FOOLED? That would mean He isnt in control.


    No, I don't see the similitude of holding someone's head under water until they repent with baptisms for the dead. If the church taught that the deceased were forced to convert, I might see your point on this... but as I have already extensively stated, that is not the case.
    I suppose whats trying to be said is that your belief is your choice. when people come in and try to do things that take away from that belief, its not ok. for example, i believe there is only heaven and hell. I dont believe in levels. hell is seperation from God and heaven is with God. you cannot do anything FOR anyone to get them to heaven. its a personal choice. so if i was baptised in the morman belief after death, that would go completely against how i believe i will spend eternity and THAT is not ok. it maybe a good intention...but some of the worst things have happened from good intentions. my belief is that God is a God of second chances and He gives us free will. so when you come in decide for someone they're fate...that isnt free will.
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    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  5. #95
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    This is crazy...I had no idea the Mormons were doing this kind of thing. You know, on the one hand (as a Christian) I see this as both 1) very offensive and 2) theologically pointless (since dead people are in 1 of 2 places already, praying for or performing rituals on them won't do a whole lot of good or bad), and on the other hand (as an intellectual) I find it stupid and just generally foolish. I'm also trying to think about a couple of things: 1) would I be offended if some Mormons dug up one of my dead relatives and tried to baptize them, and 2) would I be able to accept that a Mormon might dig me up after I'm dead and baptize me? I think I would be offended, and I would hope that this would not happen, but on the other hand, I am baptized into Christ's death, BUT ALSO INTO HIS RESURRECTION! This means that as He was raised from the dead, so also will I share in my Lord's heavenly glory when I am dead and gone from this world. This is my view and perspective as a believer in Christ, but I also think atheists and agnostics shouldn't really worry too much about it because after all, they don't believe in any of this stuff anyway.

  6. #96
    Senior Member incubustribute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I talked to a mormon friend last night, he told me that even if the baptized don't accept what has been done for them, they will still be placed into one of the levels of mormon heaven. They have no choice about the matter at all. No matter how you slice it, people become mormon against their will.
    It is quite literally impossible (from the perspective of any religion or value system) to MAKE someone believe ANYTHING. Sure, from the Mormon's perspective or false belief system, they've succeeded in "saving" the dead person, but we all know in reality, nothing changed. No one is becoming Mormon against their will, the Mormons are simply claiming that their baptism does not reside in human will, but rather that their god forces belief into them. The point I'm trying to make is that regardless of how one defines his reality, there is still a TRUE reality that doesn't change based on belief. Therefore, one cannot possibly be FORCED into faith - it would be a contradiction of terms for this to happen.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by incubustribute View Post
    It is quite literally impossible (from the perspective of any religion or value system) to MAKE someone believe ANYTHING. Sure, from the Mormon's perspective or false belief system, they've succeeded in "saving" the dead person, but we all know in reality, nothing changed. No one is becoming Mormon against their will, the Mormons are simply claiming that their baptism does not reside in human will, but rather that their god forces belief into them. The point I'm trying to make is that regardless of how one defines his reality, there is still a TRUE reality that doesn't change based on belief. Therefore, one cannot possibly be FORCED into faith - it would be a contradiction of terms for this to happen.
    Your belief isn't better than their belief. You are talking about knowing what is impossible to be sure of. The purpose of this thread, is to point out some of LDS's strange practices that happen to be disrespectful to anyone of a different faith, and what their motivation might be to use it.

    How do you know their way isn't right? Sure, every claim they make can be shot down with archeology, history, linguistics, and science. That isn't the point, because Christianity can be shot down for some of those reasons as well.

    Beliefs were never the crux of the issue here. It's about respecting others, and leaving them be in peace to whatever faith or non-faith they had in life.

  8. #98
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    When theology becomes bureaucracy, you just have to laugh.

  9. #99
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Any sufficiently important human system (like religion) will invariably become bureaucratic at some point - often in direct proportion to its popularity and prominence. Rules and regulation protect the fundamental interests of the organization, while making it difficult for newcomers to penetrate.

    Bureaucracy is an inconvenient safeguard.

  10. #100
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    That's why organized religion is hilarious.

    At least, when you're not being burnt at a stake.

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