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  1. #1
    heart on fire
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    Default Global Warming: Myths or Facts?


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    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I was saying this like two years ago.

    But basicly there was slight reason to assume global warming was a threat and then hundreds of people abused that situation to gain face and political leverage. Blowing it out of its proverbial proportions.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Global warming is just a piece of the puzzle known as impact of mankind upon the planet. Few weeks back I have said that I will make a thread about this and will do this soon.


    As for this thread: That antiglobal warming link only proves that people (I mean public) don't understand how Earth works. So you can give them arguments that are missleding.



    In order to warm up the planet you must cool it first. What people have a hard time "swallowing".

    The person that claims that global warming causes tsunamies is not scientific. This calim is non sense. The purppose of this claim is just to get bigger volume of anti global warming claims.


    When they talk about arctic ice cap they only talk about the size.
    But they don't about thickness and compactness of ice. Not to mention that sessonal variation is something that you will not hear often in the news.
    (trust me the ice cap is quite complex mechanism)


    Also people fail to understand that the melt of arctic ice cap can't raise sea level by definition. On the other hand they don't say what will happen if that cap disappears, what is quite likely.(what is very complex argument)

    Another thing the don't underszand is that you don't meassure global warming by the highest temperature on the record.


    When you see headlines "Like ice caps are melthing" "Poor polar bears" "global warming is causing tsunamies" you can be pretty sure that someone is just trying to make money by selling news and this are the news that people can understand.

    But the truth is much more complex then this and you need huge amount of scientific knowledge to understand what this is process really is and that is a much bigger problem then it looks like.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Also people fail to understand that the melt of arctic ice cap can't raise sea level by definition. On the other hand they don't say what will happen if that cap disappears, what is quite likely.(what is very complex argument)
    You know what, here you make total sense to me. When you have a glass of water and some ice cubs in it, when they melt, the water level stays the same pretty much.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Also people fail to understand that the melt of arctic ice cap can't raise sea level by definition. On the other hand they don't say what will happen if that cap disappears, what is quite likely.(what is very complex argument)
    Yes, it does. It's worth reading up on what this means - it has to do with the displacement of fresh water when it melts into salt water.

    But the truth is much more complex then this and you need huge amount of scientific knowledge to understand what this is process really is and that is a much bigger problem then it looks like.
    Everything I have seen supports global climate change. However, it is the rate that is super hyped beyond reason. It's not like everything is going to happen over the next ten years - even at exponential growth, it'll take a century. And that's going to drag longer as we reduce our growth.

  6. #6
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    You know what, here you make total sense to me. When you have a glass of water and some ice cubs in it, when they melt, the water level stays the same pretty much.
    Not really, as soon as you put icecubes in, the water obviously displaces. When they melt, the overall level only slightly goes down because water expands when it freezes, so in liquid form it contracts, and takes up less space. Even still, if you just let ice cubes melt in a glass, the water will get higher.

    He's wrong in general. The Icecaps at the Antarctic as well as Greenland are currently not floating on water, but are on land. As such, if they melt, the water would shift into the ocean and raise its level.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Everything I have seen supports global climate change. However, it is the rate that is super hyped beyond reason. It's not like everything is going to happen over the next ten years - even at exponential growth, it'll take a century. And that's going to drag longer as we reduce our growth.
    I think you've hit on the primary bone of contention many seem to have with global warming, as a philosophy.

    Climate change is normal. What isn't normal is the rate at which climate change has been aided through the presence of insulating Greenhouses gases that prevent the natural filtration of solar radiation.

    More people with easier access to nonrenewable energy (think China; India; America) = higher concentration of Greenhouse gas emission.

    Measuring this is easy. We know how gases like Carbon Dioxide and Methane will react with water molecules in our atmosphere. Seeing an empirical increase in these gases means an empirical increase in their reactivity with water vapor. This means less vapor to reflect solar radiation, which in turn means we absorb the difference below.

    As a result, climate change is accelerated. It's simple convection.


    Not a controversial point, if you disentangle the spurious political connections. There's no real debate.

    Just falsifiable data muddied by shallow misdirection.

  8. #8
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Not really, as soon as you put icecubes in, the water obviously displaces. When they melt, the overall level only slightly goes down because water expands when it freezes, so in liquid form it contracts, and takes up less space. Even still, if you just let ice cubes melt in a glass, the water will get higher.

    He's wrong in general. The Icecaps at the Antarctic as well as Greenland are currently not floating on water, but are on land. As such, if they melt, the water would shift into the ocean and raise its level.

    I was talking about arctic sea ice. Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets are another story. But melting of those two will take some time. .

    For me arctic ice is made of two parts Arctic sea ice and Greenland ice sheet.
    The rise of sea level is not the biggest problem it is the drought that will be caused by this process.



    The glass example is somewhat missleding.
    The reason why melting of Arctic sea ice will not change sea level are
    1. next to the surface of the oceans the surface of sea ice is small.
    2. The sheet is very very thin in comparison to its surface
    3. Plus the ice is already in water

    The difference after the melt will be negligible. But it will change wind patterns all over the world.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Measuring this is easy. We know how gases like Carbon Dioxide and Methane will react with water molecules in our atmosphere. Seeing an empirical increase in these gases means an empirical increase in their reactivity with water vapor. This means less vapor to reflect solar radiation, which in turn means we absorb the difference below.
    The greenhouse effect also plays a significant part, where it acts more like a "battery" of heat. As CO2 and the like rise, more is absorbed and radiated outward...

    That's the problem with climate... it's seriously complex. And worse, it's almost impossible to explain how trends can reverse themselves for long periods of time with the initial biases still being at play. If anything, that's what leads to catastrophic issues, because you don't prepare for something when normal deviations hide the biases, and when those biases reverse themselves, you end up with the same exponential growth that has been hidden, plus the biases.

    And then the opposite logic hits in, and says that the new state is just a bias as well, and that it will cool.

    *shakes head* It's a difficult topic, but... it shouldn't be as difficult as it is. But to get the big picture and all the details, and to accept the evidence, you need to dig pretty deep.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The difference after the melt will be negligible. But it will change wind patterns all over the world.
    Just over 2% increased volume from melting ice caps that are fully immersed in water. You can decide if that counts as negligible.

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