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  1. #61
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Sorry, blackie... I didn't read past this lie.
    That's what I said.

    Please, quote the few lone "scientists" that say otherwise, so we can share a good laugh together. :yim_rolling_on_the_

    But I must warn you: as I said, it's a bit like quoting creationist scientists versus darwinian ones.

    And since I'm saying that, you will also notice there's often an ideological link between those creationists and those that deny AGW. Same lobbies. Curious, isn't it?

    ---

    Like many people have noticed, I'd say you know nothing or almost nothing, yet you're incredibly stubborn.
    Why? It's an interesting psychological issue.

    ---

    Anyway. The real debate within the scientific community is not whether AGW is real or not (IT IS!), but it's rather about the relevance of various climate models and the way they hope to predict how this rise will occur.

    AGW is a fact, based on many empirical evidences. Climate models aren't (yet), most of the time, they still remain theories. So the issue is rather how those models integrate facts like the AGW.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #62
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Like many people have noticed, I'd say you know nothing or almost nothing, yet you're incredibly stubborn.
    I don't think it's stubbornness so much as honesty.

    I wouldn't expect you to understand, but one thing is certain: I will not play "dueling sources" with you. Doing so will only waste everyone's time.

    I concede climate change. AGW... the burden of proof for that ought to be quite high, unless of course the idea is convenient to one's ideology. If you've got an agenda, on the other hand, AGW is a foregone conclusion.

    Thank you for showing us all a prime example.

  3. #63
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    If you've got an agenda, on the other hand, AGW is a foregone conclusion.

    Thank you for showing us all a prime example.
    It's the pot calling the kettle black... :yim_rolling_on_the_ :yim_rolling_on_the_ :yim_rolling_on_the_

    (Or "People who live in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones!")

    ---

    Can you swear that you have no political agenda, here?
    (Same question for Risen)

    Again, you're a Christian conservative. What else could we expect from you, little crusader?

    Your tricks are predictable, I've read them over and over and over again:



    Step 1: Pretend that Global Warming is not real.

    (See if you can win the argument. If not then go to next step: )

    Step 2: Concede that Global Warning may be real, but that men aren't responsible for it...

    (See if you can win the argument. If not then go to next step: )

    Step 3: Concede that AGW may be real too, but that we cannot do anything against it, because the scale is too large.

    (Don't go further away: you might threaten the patriotic interests of our economy and national industries or worst, turn into a dangerous commie)
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #64
    Oberon
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    Once again I find myself vanquished.

    Curse you, minion of the leftist intelligentsia!!!

  5. #65
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Can you possibly imagine that I had not heard of this prior to just now?
    After re-reading this thread, I'm glad I kept it simple for you, Oberon...

  6. #66
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    It's weird how some people will still try to deny it's happening.

    Is It Happening?

    Yes. Earth is already showing many signs of worldwide climate change.

    • Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

    • The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

    • The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000 and 2004.

    • Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and the region may have its first completely ice-free summer by 2040 or earlier. Polar bears and indigenous cultures are already suffering from the sea-ice loss.

    • Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

    • Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

    • An upsurge in the amount of extreme weather events, such as wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, is also attributed in part to climate change by some experts.

    Are Humans Causing It?

    "Very likely," the IPCC said in a February 2007 report.

    The report, based on the work of some 2,500 scientists in more than 130 countries, concluded that humans have caused all or most of the current planetary warming. Human-caused global warming is often called anthropogenic climate change.

    • Industrialization, deforestation, and pollution have greatly increased atmospheric concentrations of water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide, all greenhouse gases that help trap heat near Earth's surface. (See an interactive feature on how global warming works.)

    • Humans are pouring carbon dioxide into the atmosphere much faster than plants and oceans can absorb it.

    • These gases persist in the atmosphere for years, meaning that even if such emissions were eliminated today, it would not immediately stop global warming.

    • Some experts point out that natural cycles in Earth's orbit can alter the planet's exposure to sunlight, which may explain the current trend. Earth has indeed experienced warming and cooling cycles roughly every hundred thousand years due to these orbital shifts, but such changes have occurred over the span of several centuries. Today's changes have taken place over the past hundred years or less.

    • Other recent research has suggested that the effects of variations in the sun's output are "negligible" as a factor in warming, but other, more complicated solar mechanisms could possibly play a role.

    What's Going to Happen?

    A follow-up report by the IPCC released in April 2007 warned that global warming could lead to large-scale food and water shortages and have catastrophic effects on wildlife.

    • Sea level could rise between 7 and 23 inches (18 to 59 centimeters) by century's end, the IPCC's February 2007 report projects. Rises of just 4 inches (10 centimeters) could flood many South Seas islands and swamp large parts of Southeast Asia.

    • Some hundred million people live within 3 feet (1 meter) of mean sea level, and much of the world's population is concentrated in vulnerable coastal cities. In the U.S., Louisiana and Florida are especially at risk.

    • Glaciers around the world could melt, causing sea levels to rise while creating water shortages in regions dependent on runoff for fresh water.

    • Strong hurricanes, droughts, heat waves, wildfires, and other natural disasters may become commonplace in many parts of the world. The growth of deserts may also cause food shortages in many places.

    • More than a million species face extinction from disappearing habitat, changing ecosystems, and acidifying oceans.

    • The ocean's circulation system, known as the ocean conveyor belt, could be permanently altered, causing a mini-ice age in Western Europe and other rapid changes.

    • At some point in the future, warming could become uncontrollable by creating a so-called positive feedback effect. Rising temperatures could release additional greenhouse gases by unlocking methane in permafrost and undersea deposits, freeing carbon trapped in sea ice, and causing increased evaporation of water.

    National Geographic - Global Warming Fast Facts

  7. #67
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Sorry, blackie... I didn't read past this lie.
    This is remarkable.

    If human created global warming is actually true, we can assume that there will be a large consensus on it among environmental scientists. If that ever happens (and of course we're saying it already has) it's something that obviously needs to be addressed in explaining and discussing the issue of global warming. But you say out of hand that it's a lie, and you read no further. This would effectively mean you could never acknowledge human created global warming, because doing so would require you to hear something that apparently makes you stop listening.

    You have just revealed the cognitive mechanism you use to avoid accepting this. To simply shut-off someone's words upon the assertion of something you doubt is the mark of willfull ignorance.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #68
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I'll try to find some medium ground with everyone who is claiming it to be fact.

    I won't deny that humans are causing it, and I won't deny it's happening at all.

    All I'm saying is that Global Warming is 100% human error; the world frequently heats up and cools down naturally. But I do agree that we are a significant sourse of this heating.

    I also don't think that our Earth will be depleated of it's resources and unstable enough for comfortable human life within the next 100 years. Theories of Global Warming really kicked off in the 70's. This 4.6 Billion Year old world isn't going to be be destroyed just over 100 years after we notice anything.

    I don't think Global Warming will effect the planet as much as it will effect us humans. Look at it this way, we're basically calling upon our own Apocalypse. We shouldn't be trying to save the earth as much, but rather saving our selves. If we continue to use up all of the natural resources, pollute the air, and use burn all of the avaliable fossil fuels, we'd be in turn, making this world unsistanable for our life.

    Global Warming isn't harming the planet as much as it's harming us. Let's turn out thoughts to trying to conserve so we can keep humans here as long as possible..the Earth will be here for millions and millions of more years, and will have inhabiting life for millions of more years. It will continue to produce it's natural resources, it is naturally recycling over a long period of time. We've simply polluted far too much, damaged the atmosphere, and used resources that we need. It's not that the other species rely on it as much, but it's all for us.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  9. #69
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    For all intents and purposes, saving ourselves and saving the world is the same thing. If the world as we know it dies, we die, so we can't do anything that only maintains ourselves and not the rest of the world. We have no where else to go.

    And can we die without the world being destroyed? Well, in what sense? If created climate change takes it's course, the earth, and life on it, will be around. It will just be entirely different ecosystems with mostly different species in possibly different volumes. What we know today won't be around, so in sense, not just us, but nature as we know it today will be gone. Now, there still will be new forms of life and terrain eventually, but you know, that's bound to happen eventually anyway, no matter what. I guess what I have to ask here is, why are we even talking about scenarios in which all of us humans and the environment we know are dead? Obviously the only reason we are talking about this so much is because we don't want to die or live in an alien world. So saying the world can, in some way, live without us, is not only obvious to most people anyway, but also pretty irrelevant to our mortal concerns.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #70
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    I don't believe AGW is occuring, and I'm not a Christian conservative. I'm a universal healthcare loving, tiny carbon footprint-having Canadian.

    The ad hominem attacks in this thread are pretty crazy though. You disagree with me? It's because you're stupid! The end!

    Well, shit, I'm convinced. :rolli:
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

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