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  1. #31
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    As you said, the melting of arctic caps is one thing (-> no change). The shrinking of permanent terrestrial ice sheets is another (-> light change). And thermal expansion of the oceans is also something completely different (-> measurable change).
    I don't see much agreement on any of these points, to be honest. The last that I've looked at showed various models with all three of these being weighted differently, depending on the assumptions behind them. (Notably, the thermal expansion is dependent upon 3d ocean temperature models, of which we have next to no data.) It's obviously a concern as the effect is known, but... the range is really large and not terribly well validated.

    (I'm not disagreeing with your overall view, just this particular bit.)

  2. #32
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I don't see much agreement on any of these points, to be honest. The last that I've looked at showed various models with all three of these being weighted differently, depending on the assumptions behind them. (Notably, the thermal expansion is dependent upon 3d ocean temperature models, of which we have next to no data.) It's obviously a concern as the effect is known, but... the range is really large and not terribly well validated.

    (I'm not disagreeing with your overall view, just this particular bit.)
    If there is a global warming (and there is one), the average ocean temperature will inevitably rise, especially on the surface.

    It's only a matter of "how much?"...

    And theoretically, thermal expansion could have a very noticeable effect, far more than the melting of ice caps.

    ---

    Anyway, the sea level is currently rising, about a tenth of an inch a year during the past century, and now a fifth of an inch for the last decade. And whatever the climate model you choose, this is a fact nobody can deny.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #33
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    If there is a global warming (and there is one), the average ocean temperature will inevitably rise, especially on the surface.

    It's only a matter of "how much?"...

    And theoretically, thermal expansion could have a very noticeable effect, far more than the melting of ice caps.
    I disagree.

    As far as iknow the list of danger index should be.

    4.Sea ice
    3.Thermal expansion
    2.Melting of ice on land
    1.Strong tectonic movements on mid ocean ridges (but this takes time and it is not directly linked with global warming).


    The main reason why I disagree with you is because temperature of ocean is changing through seasons but we can't notice any real difference in sea level. I so think that thermal expansion is not a real threat.

    .

  4. #34
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The main reason why I disagree with you is because temperature of ocean is changing through seasons but we can't notice any real difference in sea level. I so think that thermal expansion is not a real threat.

    .
    Do you think the average sea temperature of every oceans on Earth changes throughout the year?

    Do you know how huge sea thermal inertia is?

    Methinks you've been too close to the Mediterranean sea for too long.

    ---

    Anyway, as I said, the increase of sea level doesn't seem that important compared to other threats induced by the global warming.
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  5. #35
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Do you think the average sea temperature of every oceans on Earth changes throughout the year?
    That is irrelevant. Since in some they are changing more then the others.
    But it never happens that a coast really suffers because of thiis and all water in all oceans is the same (more or less). So lawas are universal.

    I don't see this as a problem.

    Also the changes in temperature through a year are much larger then changes that will be made by global warming in the near future.

  6. #36
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post

    Also the changes in temperature through a year are much larger then changes that will be made by global warming in the near future.
    No.

    That's what I thought, you have no idea what sea thermal inertia is.
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  7. #37
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Sorry, I am awake since 6 AM.

    I didn't noticed that you have changed the topic from thermal epansion to thermal inertia.

  8. #38
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    It simply means that the average changes of temperature of the oceans can only be very gradual, and that there will be NO noticeable change during only a year, or only on the surface. The seasons will change almost nothing.

    That's thermal inertia. (ask your teachers)

    As a matter of fact, it will take decades to see the full effect of global warming on the oceans. It's a far slower process than what you will see inland.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Sorry, I am awake since 6 AM.

    I didn't noticed that you have changed the topic from thermal epansion to thermal inertia.
    As I said, the thermal inertia of the oceans is so huge, that it means that the thermal expansion can only be very gradual. But it will occur, slowly, but surely.

    So basically, when you say that the average temperature of the oceans changes throughout the seasons, it's FALSE. You would need a lot more than a year to detect a change.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #40
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It simply means that the average changes of temperature of the oceans can only be very gradual, and that there will be NO noticeable change during only a year, or only on the surface. The seasons will change almost nothing.

    That's thermal inertia. (ask your teachers)

    As a matter of fact, it will take decades to see the full effect of global warming on the oceans. It's a far slower process than what you will see inland.
    As I said in my last post I did not pay attention to what you are really saying. Actually I fully agree with you.

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