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  1. #171
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    That's what I just said. The earth is physically roughly the same distance from the sun year round. The seasons are caused by the tilt of the earth as it orbits the sun. The tilt causes one hemisphere to receive more direct light than the other. Physically, it's still a product of the distance traveled by the light rays through the atmosphere and the angle of impact. The winter side still gets sunlight, but they get fewer hours of light and the light that hemisphere receives is weaker because it travels a greater distance through the atmosphere due to the angle of the earth. Understand?
    I think you are having issues with what angles really mean. If you did you would understand why the word 'distance' doesn't really make sense.

    Imagine a circle (I know it's more elliptical), but, for ease, imagine a circle......
    Now imagine the top half of the circle tilted away from the sun, thus, the bottom half is tilted towards the sun. This allows for one half to be warmer because:
    - the bottom of the Earth's surface area getting more rays of sunlight as compared to the top half of the Earth's surface area.

    And....this happens because, of the angles (due to tilt in axis). Imagine a vector drawn vertically down the side of the earth (while its tilted as outlined above). This would mean that any perpendicular lines (aka, sun's ray) intercepting that vector, would, strike the bottom half (tilted towards sun) in such a way that the angle between the vertical line and the vector line is closer to a 90 degrees angle, than the flip side**, allowing for more of the Earth's surface to be receptive to the sunlight. I.e., more energy, I.e., season like summer.


    ** the flip side (the top half) then would be a more acute angle.

    |_ versus < allows for the difference, i.e., surface area, not distance travelled by the sunlight. Cuz as MacGuffin mentioned, the earth is actually closest to the sun during the Northern Winter. Meaning, the distance from the sun is actually greater during the summer months, than in the winter months.

    So,how is that about distance?

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    It's clear you lack academic experience - not only on this topic, but on almost everything you discuss.

    ...

    I'd recommend you save some of these discussions and revisit them in a few years, Risen. The 'everyone who disagrees with me is stupid' approach is an intellectual phase most mature out of after adolescence. Your adoption of this approach tells me you can't comprehend why people don't automatically think like you.

    This belief is not indicative of higher thought, Risen. Quite the contrary. Strength in intellect is seeing multiple ways to accomplish something. Not the other way around. Your stance is common for many during 'high school age' development.

    Just to be clear, in roundtable academic discussions, you'd be laughed out of the room. Online, you're afforded certain courtesies in ettiquette you wouldn't experience in typical theoretical conversation - especially when you haven't done your homework.

    Good news is that ignorance generally isn't permanent. After a few years of undergrad study -- with some real science under your belt -- you'll have the necessary skills to better develop your GW positions. People who disagree with you won't be 'stupid', because you'll finally understand why they think the way they do.
    No amount of scientific knowledge will help you when you use it to reach the WRONG conclusions. No amount of new information will help you until you learn to adjust your logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I think you are having issues with what angles really mean. If you did you would understand why the word 'distance' doesn't really make sense.

    Imagine a circle (I know it's more elliptical), but, for ease, imagine a circle......
    Now imagine the top half of the circle tilted away from the sun, thus, the bottom half is tilted towards the sun. This allows for one half to be warmer because:
    - the bottom of the Earth's surface area getting more rays of sunlight as compared to the top half of the Earth's surface area.

    And....this happens because, of the angles (due to tilt in axis). Imagine a vector drawn vertically down the side of the earth (while its tilted as outlined above). This would mean that any perpendicular lines (aka, sun's ray) intercepting that vector, would, strike the bottom half (tilted towards sun) as the bisection of the vertical line and the vector line is closer to a 90 degrees angle, than the flip side**, allowing for more of the Earth's surface to be receptive to the sunlight. I.e., more energy, I.e., season like summer.


    ** the flip side (the top half) then would be a more acute angle.

    |_ versus < allows for the difference, i.e., surface area, not distance travelled by the sunlight. Cuz as MacGuffin mentioned, the earth is actually closest to the sun during the Northern Winter. Meaning, the distance from the sun is actually greater during the summer months, than in the winter months.

    So,how is that about distance?
    I suggest you go read up on what causes the seasons. I've said it at least three times already. Hint: pay CAREFUL attention to light traveling through the atmosphere. Then come back, and try to explain it again hon .

    OK, I'm feeling generous today, but this is the last time.

    THE EARTH'S SEASONS ARE CAUSED BY
    1. THE NUMBER OF HOURS OF SUNLIGHT THE LOCATION RECIEVES (CAUSED BY THE EARTH'S TILT).
    2. THE STRENGTH OF THE LIGHT THE LOCATION RECEIVES (CAUSED BY THE ANGLE OF IMPACT).

    The hemisphere that experiences winter does so because it gets fewer hours of sunlight, and the sun they receive is less direct. The greater angle in the winter hemisphere causes the light from the sun to travel a greater DISTANCE through the atmosphere. Thus, the light that hits that location is weaker and creates less heat. The distance the earth is from the sun in the perturbation of it's mainly circular orbit is negligible when considering the change of the seasons, it is the distance the light travels through the atmosphere that I was referring to when I said "the poles being farther from the sun*light*".

    God....

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    That's what I just said. The earth is physically roughly the same distance from the sun year round. The seasons are caused by the tilt of the earth as it orbits the sun. The tilt causes one hemisphere to receive more direct light than the other. Physically, it's still a product of the distance traveled by the light rays through the atmosphere and the angle of impact. The winter side still gets sunlight, but they get fewer hours of light and the light that hemisphere receives is weaker because it travels a greater distance through the atmosphere due to the angle of the earth. Understand?
    I understand you don't know what you're talking about, yes.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I understand you don't know what you're talking about, yes.
    Public school did you a disservice, yes?

    Go check your facts. This is freaking ridiculous.

  5. #175
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    1. I don't believe the illegal dumping of iron in the oceans directly causes massive plankton plumes.
    Well, that's true. People don't dump iron very often, it's fairly valuable. It's mostly toxic stuff that gets dumped.

    2. If people are smart enough to put NATIVE plants back into the environment, or species they know will not be invasive, then fine.
    Unfortunately, native plants normally can't be used because the ecosystem that supported them has been destroyed. They won't re-root and have the same effect they have... if only because the erosion will prevent it. Smart people? They try this stuff. They research it. They have degrees in it. You act like the entire collective understand is simply stupid. You may want to revisit your premise that lets you get away with logically leaping over every concern and data point that you disagree with.

    And MP is right - it was a story, near allegory.

    3. Comparing a river (which even BEAVERS can modify) to the entire climate of a planet is REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY stretching it .
    ... I think this is a good hint I shouldn't be bothering with this anymore.

  6. #176
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I suggest you go read up on what causes the seasons. I've said it at least three times already. Hint: pay CAREFUL attention to light traveling through the atmosphere. Then come back, and try to explain it again hon .
    Alright lemme try again, to clarify what I'm asking you when I ask, 'why distance'?

    You say...and read this, slowlyyy..........V

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Physically, it's still a product of the distance traveled by the light rays through the atmosphere and the angle of impact.
    It is NOT a product of the distance travelled by the light's ray through the atmosphere AND the angle of impact.

    It is due to the angle/axis, OF WHICH, a PRODUCT IS that there's less atmosphere for the rays to travel through in the summer versus the winter.

    This distance business is redundant...that's what we're trying to tell you. It's because of the ANGLE! It's not a product of two different things as your second quote suggests. It's because of the tilt in the axis, which LEADS to the whole atmosphere shebang.

    One thing! All one! ONE!

    Just like again, you mistaken, seeing these as separate phenomenas:
    1. THE NUMBER OF HOURS OF SUNLIGHT THE LOCATION RECIEVES (CAUSED BY THE EARTH'S TILT).
    2. THE STRENGTH OF THE LIGHT THE LOCATION RECEIVES (CAUSED BY THE ANGLE OF IMPACT).
    Tell, me, how does 2 come about? This angle of impact, if 1 didn't happen? (i.e., the earth's tilt?)

    Got it, snookums?!

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    OK, I'm feeling generous today, but this is the last time.

    THE EARTH'S SEASONS ARE CAUSED BY
    1. THE NUMBER OF HOURS OF SUNLIGHT THE LOCATION RECIEVES (CAUSED BY THE EARTH'S TILT).
    2. THE STRENGTH OF THE LIGHT THE LOCATION RECEIVES (CAUSED BY THE ANGLE OF IMPACT).

    The hemisphere that experiences winter does so because it gets fewer hours of sunlight, and the sun they receive is less direct. The greater angle in the winter hemisphere causes the light from the sun to travel a greater DISTANCE through the atmosphere. Thus, the light that hits that location is weaker and creates less heat. The distance the earth is from the sun in the perturbation of it's mainly circular orbit is negligible when considering the change of the seasons, it is the distance the light travels through the atmosphere that I was referring to when I said "the poles being farther from the sun*light*".

    God....
    Oh wait, I missed this post.

    You almost got it, but the primary reason is still just the angle from the sun. The distance travelled through the atmosphere has some effect, but it's not the main one.

    You failed to make this point clear at first, ignored ptgatsby's reference of atmosphere in his response (making him the one that actually raised your argument first), and then giving too much weight to the "distance" travelled in the end.

    I give your argument a C-

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post



    ... I think this is a good hint I shouldn't be bothering with this anymore.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Oh wait, I missed this post.

    You almost got it, but the primary reason is still just the angle from the sun. The distance travelled through the atmosphere has some effect, but it's not the main one.

    You failed to make this point clear at first, ignored ptgatsby's reference of atmosphere in his response (making him the one that actually raised your argument first), and then giving too much weight to the "distance" travelled in the end.

    I give your argument a C-
    Going back to the reason I originally brought this up, the strength of the light is one factor in determining the temperature of a location on the earth's surface. This is because of the distance the light travels through the atmosphere, which is (yes) caused by the angle. Either way is correct, except referring to distance is more SPECIFIC to the argument at hand (which had gotten shifted to an argument about seasons). The temperature is also do to the length (in time) of the exposure of the location to the sun's rays. Then follows all the other climatic factors such as humidity, composition of the ground, weather patterns, etc. etc.

    I'm not wrong, you and gatsby essentially agree with me, and I'm done. Thank you for reminding me why talking about global warming is simply gormless.

  9. #179
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Did anyone mention sun spot and solar flare cycles. i think the earths temp is directly related to this. The reason i ask is that it could have been mentioned in terms that read like the tax code.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #180
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    No amount of scientific knowledge will help you when you use it to reach the WRONG conclusions. No amount of new information will help you until you learn to adjust your logic.


    I suppose we should be adjusting our scientific knowledge to reach the prescribed "right conclusion", and must learn to adjust our logic to achieve this feat?

    Now we know.

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