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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    3. There will be unintended consequences, like the proliferation of nuclear energy.
    What's wrong with nuclear energy?

  2. #162
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    In other words, acts such as dumping iron in the oceans are the actions of ignorant fools who can't think past step 1.
    You worry about dumping iron in the ocean...? Do you have any concept of what we are talking about? The blooms we already have are 450 million tons of plankton... that's the major one we see each year. This is what I'm talking about. Dumping thousands of times more iron than they are talking about would have a miniscule impact compared to what we already do.

    Oh, and that idea was mostly rejected too, btw. Cause, you know, they will actually investigate how feasible a project is before it is undertaken to measure impact and the like. And... did you know that the attempts to do this by private company were shut down by biologists, regulators... Because they wanted to know what impact it would have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Seriously, I was even thinking about how it's blazing hot around the equator where the direct rays of the sun hit, and how cold it is on the poles where the sun is farthest away.
    It's not distance, it's angle/tilt/atmosphere. For example, here in the North, we are closer to the sun during winter. Easy to remember - we are the farthest from the sun around July 4th.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post



    It's not distance, it's angle/tilt/atmosphere. For example, here in the North, we are closer to the sun during winter. Easy to remember - we are the farthest from the sun around July 4th.
    Adjectives used to describe distance. You're not helping your own argument. Technically it's the angle determining how much direct sun the area gets and the strength of the light, but it's still a product of the distance covered by the light.

    The entire premise of dumping iron into the oceans is as stupid and retarded as it gets. It has a MINIMAL impact on global warming, and while you say it has a MINIMAL impact on the ocean life affected by the overgrowth of the damn plankton (which was, as I remember an UNINTENDED consequence by the STUPID environmental vagabonds) it still makes everything they stand for a fucking joke. The entire idea of exhaulting humanity to such an arrogant level where they can say they have more influence on the climate than anything else, then to claim that humans and their activities are just a scourge upon the planet, and then turn around and harm the fucking animals and environment they wished to protect for the sake of stopping something they never had control over to begin with. It makes me livid how STUPID human beings are. They may not have the ability to destroy the climate, but they have an unfathomable potential to extend their ignorance into infinity.

    And for extra clarity I am not saying YOU are that stupid, or that you are a part of that group (aside from the generalization about humanity as a whole ). For further clarity, I don't care if someone puts themselves in the group I just berated. The truth hurts sometimes, and the pain anyone may feel is just one step towards a better world .

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Adjectives used to describe distance. You're not helping your own argument. Technically it's the angle determining how much direct sun the area gets and the strength of the light, but it's still a product of the distance covered by the light.
    LOL you didn't even understand what he wrote.

    The northern hemisphere is actually closer to the sun during winter, not summer. It's the tilt of the earth's axis that makes the seasons hotter/colder, not the distance from the sun.

  5. #165
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    It makes me livid how STUPID human beings are.
    It's clear you lack academic experience - not only on this topic, but on almost everything you discuss.

    ...

    I'd recommend you save some of these discussions and revisit them in a few years, Risen. The 'everyone who disagrees with me is stupid' approach is an intellectual phase most mature out of after adolescence. Your adoption of this approach tells me you can't comprehend why people don't automatically think like you.

    This belief is not indicative of higher thought, Risen. Quite the contrary. Strength in intellect is seeing multiple ways to accomplish something. Not the other way around. Your stance is common for many during 'high school age' development.

    Just to be clear, in roundtable academic discussions, you'd be laughed out of the room. Online, you're afforded certain courtesies in ettiquette you wouldn't experience in typical theoretical conversation - especially when you haven't done your homework.

    Good news is that ignorance generally isn't permanent. After a few years of undergrad study -- with some real science under your belt -- you'll have the necessary skills to better develop your GW positions. People who disagree with you won't be 'stupid', because you'll finally understand why they think the way they do.

  6. #166
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    ...
    You continue to repeat the same issue I have with your stance. You worry about dumping iron into the ocean saying humans have an influence, then say that humans don't have an influence while we dump (known) tens of millions of tons of waste. The illegal amount of computer discards - just in terms of toxic metal, is two orders of magnitude larger than the private company that wanted to dump iron in the ocean (100t vs 100,000t). That's illegal ocean dumping - the real number is likely to be much much higher.

    It may be stupid - costly and ineffective - although since these were brainstorms that were then tested for feasibility and effectiveness, I'd say they were handled pretty well... And I would mostly agree. I haven't heard a good idea that I would consider feasible.

    But the reason for that is, again, because the already present scale of human influence. To make an effective and affordable decision, we need to use enormous leverage. The kind of leverage comparable to nuclear weapons as 'force multipliers'.

    --

    The analogy I would us is something like this: Humans clear cut, slash and burn and don't replant hundreds of millions of acres, often along riverbanks (for transport). As the soil erodes, destroying rivers and the trickle down effects that entails, quite a few different disciplines begin to realize that this is having a large effect - even on human life. A few people start brainstorming how to fix this issue, and suggest planting deep rooted plants in order to try to fix it. Then some people go "Wait, we don't know what effect those plants will have!". Some will tell you that soil erosion doesn't really happen and that the river is fine. The rest will tell you that humans couldn't possibly influence such a big river.

    Heh, judging from how it seems to go, they'll probably say the same thing right up until the drinking water and fish are gone, at which point government will be blamed. Doesn't even matter what side of ideology you are on.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    LOL you didn't even understand what he wrote.

    The northern hemisphere is actually closer to the sun during winter, not summer. It's the tilt of the earth's axis that makes the seasons hotter/colder, not the distance from the sun.
    That's what I just said. The earth is physically roughly the same distance from the sun year round. The seasons are caused by the tilt of the earth as it orbits the sun. The tilt causes one hemisphere to receive more direct light than the other. Physically, it's still a product of the distance traveled by the light rays through the atmosphere and the angle of impact. The winter side still gets sunlight, but they get fewer hours of light and the light that hemisphere receives is weaker because it travels a greater distance through the atmosphere due to the angle of the earth. Understand?

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    --

    The analogy I would us is something like this: Humans clear cut, slash and burn and don't replant hundreds of millions of acres, often along riverbanks (for transport). As the soil erodes, destroying rivers and the trickle down effects that entails, quite a few different disciplines begin to realize that this is having a large effect - even on human life. A few people start brainstorming how to fix this issue, and suggest planting deep rooted plants in order to try to fix it. Then some people go "Wait, we don't know what effect those plants will have!". Some will tell you that soil erosion doesn't really happen and that the river is fine. The rest will tell you that humans couldn't possibly influence such a big river.

    Heh, judging from how it seems to go, they'll probably say the same thing right up until the drinking water and fish are gone, at which point government will be blamed. Doesn't even matter what side of ideology you are on.
    1. I don't believe the illegal dumping of iron in the oceans directly causes massive plankton plumes.

    2. If people are smart enough to put NATIVE plants back into the environment, or species they know will not be invasive, then fine. However, people have a long history of f***ing up the environment by introducing something that doesn't belong, only to find out the plant or animal is choking out everything else. It is because people don't think that this happens. We have decent cause and effect research with our modern scientific disciplines, but environmentalists and politicians are not scientists, and they do not adhere to such an integrity or level of intelligence.

    3. Comparing a river (which even BEAVERS can modify) to the entire climate of a planet is REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY stretching it .

    Oh dear, I'm talking to much...

  9. #169
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    We have decent cause and effect research with our modern scientific disciplines, but environmentalists and politicians are not scientists, and they do not adhere to such an integrity or level of intelligence.
    Not all environmentalists are scientists, and not all scientists are environmentalists, but there is a very large number of environmental scientists with doctorates and eveything... They know all kinds of crap. Biology, ecology, meteorology, geology, etc... They specialize of course, but environmental studies dabble in all of those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    3. Comparing a river (which even BEAVERS can modify) to the entire climate of a planet is REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY stretching it .
    And you completely miss the point of an analogy. Though, I have to say, PT was bordering on allegory there.
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  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Not all environmentalists are scientists, and not all scientists are environmentalists, but there is a very large number of environmental scientists with doctarates and eveything... They know all kinds of crap. Biology, ecology, meteorology, geology, etc... They specialize of course, but environmental studies dabble in all of those things.



    And you completely miss the point of an analogy. Though, I have to say, PT was bordering on allegory there.
    The point of the analogy was not missed. The assertion that it applies to the uber macro level of the entire climate is what I was addressing.

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