User Tag List

First 61415161718 Last

Results 151 to 160 of 192

  1. #151
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Government will become even more involved in peoples' lives. That's obviously something that's difficult for someone who sees government as a "good" thing, rather than a necessary evil, to understand.
    The answer is: Ideology.

    Your opinion is only only a by-product of your ideological choices.

    But I'd like to see if you can admit it, right here, in front of us. After all, it's only an internet forum.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  2. #152
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Once again, you didn't listen.

    I was mentioning facts, not photos or climate models.

    You know nothing about the subject. So how can you determine there is "lots of propaganda on both sides"?
    Even when you pretend to be a skeptic (allow me to be very skeptical bout that claim), how was your opinion manufactured?

    Who influenced you, and why?

    ---

    For instance, when you notice a debate between creationists and darwinians, do you also say that there is "lots of propaganda on both sides"?
    Do you also pretend to be neutral, a total skeptic?
    Why?

    Who influenced you, and why?
    I'm sure you have more knowledge on the subject than me. But I'm not going to just defer to you on this. You have no working product.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #153
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Heh, I would love to see how they intend to get billions of tons into the air... Wait... we already do that with industry, so obviously it is possible. Then again, most of the toxic ones are in the hundreds of millions of tons, so... you know. I guess it depends on how you define things. Least the US has decreased their impact notably.... through regulations.

    And I hear those regulations are a bad idea, too... Seems to me they are the flip side to not doing "geo engineering".

    See... that's kind of the rub. It's hard to hold onto both stances, to me. Everything that we'd do as geo-engineering, we are doing already, at an... heh... industrial scale. An industrial scale - of 6+ billion people, most of which are still industrializing.

    The bottom line is that we are geo-engineering and unless we start using gigantic effect multipliers, it won't even compare to what we are doing already. Billions of tons of dust in the atmosphere? Heh. We already have events like that. It's gonna take a lot more than that. Shading? Hundred billion tons? For a few years? Yah. That sounds about right, although we'd probably deliver it better than volcanoes. *shrug*
    Hey, that was just an example. There are lots of other crazy ideas out there.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #154
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, yes, I believe more intervention in business would be good regardless of global warming. That being said, I severely doubt the global warming threat would result in the USA assuming a government as bad as the USSR or the 1970s PRC. If anyone in the government wanted to achieve that, they'd have plenty of other, better routes to take than this global warming thing anyway.

    And you know it sounds like if you're right, the consequences aren't nearly as bad as they'd be if you were wrong...
    It wouldn't happen overnight. But each successive generation is more open to living in a nanny state.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #155
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It wouldn't happen overnight. But each successive generation is more open to living in a nanny state.
    Ignoring eveything else I could say to this, I have to ask, do you think combating global warming really does much of anything to make or break this trend? It strikes me as extremely incidental to your concern.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  6. #156
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Ignoring eveything else I could say to this, I have to askl, do you think combating global warming really does much of anything to make or break this trend? It strikes me as extremely incidental to your concern.
    I think the only way the global warming movement makes a measurable impact is if they take control of governments and shut down plants across the globe. And that's assuming they're right.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #157
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Hey, that was just an example. There are lots of other crazy ideas out there.
    You are missing the point.

    First, geo-engineering fears are based upon messing up our environment. Yet, all current plans to geo-engineer are infeasible because they don't even start to cover the scope of influence we are already having. If you believe we can geo engineer change, we are many time over that in current climate influence - you are essentially acknowledging human involvement in global climate change. This divide comes partly from shying away from the sheer scale of what is happening. Tangible small things, like geo-engineering, can be resisted because they are just that - small, tangible things. World wide environmental influence is simply too large to really exist - that we cannot add up to such a gigantic amount of influence.

    Second, if you are against geo engineering, then you are against humans having a controlled environmental impact. Yet, if you are against this controlled environmental impact, then the logical conclusion would be to control our current known impact on the environment - industry and the like being controlled environmental impact. Strangely, it tends to be those we should intervene through geo-engineering also do not think we should intervene in our current geo-engineering impact. Therefore, these stances are not based upon any interference in the environment, but outside ideology. This causes denial of impact because of the premise that free-acting people walk, so to speak, a golden path, and that intervention against them is inherently wrong.


    Fortunately these camps are being ignored. As more and more research comes out, more and more action by governments - for more than a couple of decades - is taking place. All of this... debate... is about social acceptance. It has nothing to do with science, evidence or even politics. All of those things are already progressing. We aren't measuring "if" it is happening, we are now measuring "what". So that political will can adapt to what is happening, as it is. So that science can learn more about our world, and what will change it.

    *sigh* What a waste of time, really. The whole thing will end up working out. Sure, we'll be poorer... either way, we will... but catastrophic change is an extreme possibility now.

    (I just realized a serious irony in calling a state 'nanny'. Seems like it is.)

  8. #158
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Don't you realize that's exactly what we are doing already? How can you hold both stances? We are affecting the environment but it won't do anything, but oh no, if we affect the environment then we will cause havoc.

    It just doesn't make sense to me...

    Are we, or are we not, affecting the environment on a global scale? If not, why are you worried about us reducing our 'minimal' effect? Keep in mind that active geo-engineering is at least two orders of magnitude weaker than the overall effect human are having... and that's what we can measure. Of course, the point I agree on is that as time goes on and the impact grows, the need for large scale force multipliers grows, and that's seriously dangerous.

    (Of course, I am still on the 'AGW is pretty solid' but overstated in terms of timeline, so I don't think it is a big deal. But denial, especially when it becomes institutionalized, is a serious barrier even in the long run.)
    I did not contradict myself, the contradiction exists only in your mind, where most of the global warming "reality" is (the realm of fantasy for those who choose to believe it). Making smart decisions based on accurate knowledge of the causes and effects is one thing global warming believers can't do because they lack the "accurate knowledge of the causes and effects" part. It's like a retarded child throwing salt on your wounds in an attempt to help you. Sure, he has good intentions, but he is too retarded to articulate anything that would actually result in a net benefit to the person/situation, much less any of the supporting information about the situation. In other words, acts such as dumping iron in the oceans are the actions of ignorant fools who can't think past step 1.

    Likewise, global regulations on CO2 are more harmful to people than they are helpful to the environment, save for where the same regulations can reduce pollutants other than CO2 which is not a f***ing pollutant . It only blocks the growth of underdeveloped countries, hurts businesses and tax payers alike through the increased costs, and again, has no net benefit to the environment. We disagree on basic facts about CO2, so AGAIN, there is no need to even argue about it. I'm sorry I even got so close to arguing about it.

  9. #159
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I have a question.
    What will be the negative consequences if we try to combat global warming?
    To name a few:

    1. If we waste trillions trying to limit C02, less resources will be available to fix real problems.

    2. Much of the feel-good actions like carbon trading and food-to-ethanol handouts will simply make some proponents rich at our expense without accomplishing anything. Trillions of dollars later, when the sky fail to fall, they will pat themselves on the back for "saving the world."

    3. There will be unintended consequences, like the proliferation of nuclear energy.

  10. #160
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,187

    Default

    Hey you know what, I had this really stupid ass thought today. Like, I suprise myself with my stupidity. I actually started thinking about that big light in the sky... I think it's called the sun, the one that looks like a big ball of fire. I actually started thinking, "what if this big ball of fire causes the earth to warm?" Crazy crap, I must've been high. Seriously, I was even thinking about how it's blazing hot around the equator where the direct rays of the sun hit, and how cold it is on the poles where the sun is farthest away. Man, I was even thinking about past ice ages and crap, and how they were possibly associated with low sun activity and sun spots. The craziest thought I had was how we've had low numbers of sun spots and the global temperatures are going down. I swear man, I must've been smoking crack today. Or maybe I'm losing brain cells from CO2 overload.

Similar Threads

  1. The Great Global Warming Swindle
    By reason in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 07-08-2015, 12:04 PM
  2. Socialism posts (moved from Global Warming.)
    By Anonymous in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 08-21-2008, 08:28 PM
  3. Global warming explained
    By Virtual ghost in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 08-20-2008, 04:30 AM
  4. Global Warming, Man made or Naturally caused (And other earth questions)
    By Didums in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 08-14-2008, 11:29 PM
  5. Global warming
    By Nocapszy in forum Home, Garden and Nature
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 04-09-2008, 11:18 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO