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  1. #141
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Tactics like actually enforcing it?
    The propaganda is pretty ridiculous.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #142
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Stupidity!

    I wasn't mentioning climate models. Not at all.

    Only results. If you can interpret infrared images, distribution of isotopes within the troposphere, the thermal reflection of continents... Well... tell me!

    I was mentioning facts, and facts only. How climate models interpret and integrate those facts is a completely different story.
    Climate models are how you test your theories. If your climate models fail, you fail.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #143
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The propaganda is pretty ridiculous.
    I'm talking about actual regulation to cut emissions, not the interest groups that try to get that passed.

  4. #144
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The propaganda is pretty ridiculous.
    If you say so.

    You know nothing about that subject. So how can you figure what is propaganda, and what is not propaganda?

    Is it Ideology, or what your friends are telling you to believe?
    I'd be interested to know how your opinions are manufactured.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #145
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I have a question.

    What will be the negative consequences if we try to combat global warming?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #146
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    If you say so.

    You know nothing about that subject. So how can you figure what is propaganda, and what is not propaganda?

    Is it Ideology, or what your friends are telling you to believe?
    I'd be interested to know how your opinions are manufactured.
    There's lots of propaganda on both sides and I'm a skeptic. Showing me a photo of a dead polar bear isn't going to sway me. Show me a working climate model and I'll listen. The problem is, you don't have one.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #147
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I have a question.

    What will be the negative consequences if we try to combat global warming?
    Government will become even more involved in peoples' lives. That's obviously something that's difficult for someone who sees government as a "good" thing, rather than a necessary evil, to understand.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #148
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    There's lots of propaganda on both sides and I'm a skeptic. Showing me a photo of a dead polar bear isn't going to sway me. Show me a working climate model and I'll listen. The problem is, you don't have one.
    Once again, you didn't listen.

    I was mentioning facts, not photos or climate models.

    You know nothing about the subject. So how can you determine there is "lots of propaganda on both sides"?
    Even when you pretend to be a skeptic (allow me to be very skeptical when I hear that claim), how was your opinion manufactured?

    Who influenced you, and why?

    ---

    For instance, when you notice a debate between creationists and darwinians, do you also say that there is "lots of propaganda on both sides"?
    Do you also pretend to be neutral, a total skeptic?
    Why?

    Who influenced you, and why?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #149
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Government will become even more involved in peoples' lives. That's obviously something that's difficult for someone who sees government as a "good" thing, rather than a necessary evil, to understand.
    Well, yes, I believe more intervention in business would be good regardless of global warming. That being said, I severely doubt the global warming threat would result in the USA assuming a government as bad as the USSR or the 1970s PRC. If anyone in the government wanted to achieve that, they'd have plenty of other, better routes to take than this global warming thing anyway.

    And you know it sounds like if you're right, the consequences aren't nearly as bad as they'd be if you were wrong...
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #150
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I haven't heard of it happening yet, at least not on the global scale. I haven't heard about anyone dispersing billions of tons of dust into the air to reflect solar radiation, or anything like that. But there are people who want to do that.
    Heh, I would love to see how they intend to get billions of tons into the air... Wait... we already do that with industry, so obviously it is possible. Then again, most of the toxic ones are in the hundreds of millions of tons, so... you know. I guess it depends on how you define things. Least the US has decreased their impact notably.... through regulations.

    And I hear those regulations are a bad idea, too... Seems to me they are the flip side to not doing "geo engineering".

    See... that's kind of the rub. It's hard to hold onto both stances, to me. Everything that we'd do as geo-engineering, we are doing already, at an... heh... industrial scale. An industrial scale - of 6+ billion people, most of which are still industrializing.

    The bottom line is that we are geo-engineering and unless we start using gigantic effect multipliers, it won't even compare to what we are doing already. Billions of tons of dust in the atmosphere? Heh. We already have events like that. It's gonna take a lot more than that. Shading? Hundred billion tons? For a few years? Yah. That sounds about right, although we'd probably deliver it better than volcanoes. *shrug*

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