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  1. #91
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    IMCO:

    The idea of substantial human induced global warming and the subsequent apocalyptic effects are an incarnation of arrogance of that human.
    We just want to think its our fault.

    We've found the idea of killing all of humanity appealing since around the same time humanity was first composed. The ultimate expression of this is are nuclear missiles.

    Don't you feel like God with that much killing power? To be that potent!
    Even if it is for a good cause, you can't deny the ego rush that does inevitably ensue from thinking that you just might be the one to end it all.

    And then the second wind the ego gets from learning it can direct the body to prevent imminent damnation!
    To be that potent!

    -------

    Sure maybe we're having an effect, but I think there's more damage being done by ostensible action, than by obscure atmospheric chemical collection.

    I mean really -- don't any of you think there are more pressing issues?
    We've got a projected hundred years to work on this before we really start feeling it [which to me is very suspicious -- merely coincidence that I'll be dead by the time I suppose], so shouldn't we y'know... focus on things that are fucking us in the ass right now?

    It may be time to reevaluate our priorities.
    we fukin won boys

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Hah. You two are forcing me to go back to the white dove thing... If 98% of relevant specialists aren't reliable for something, then nothing is true enough to be cause for action. :rolli:
    Oh ye of vacuous foreknowledge and faith-
    Cold Fusion: 60 Minutes Video

  3. #93
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Oh ye of vacuous foreknowledge and faith-
    Cold Fusion: 60 Minutes Video
    Hmm. You seem to have misunderstood the the reasoning behind my argument. I know the scientific community has been wrong before. But does that mean we should slouch around now whenever 98% of the scientific community is behind something, especially when it's indicates a disasterous emergency? I come back to the point that we can afford to be wrong about global warming more than we afford to have to be inert and right about global warming.

    And 98% support in the scientific community is still about the best thing you can ask for, even if it's been wrong before. Think about it. Think of the stupidity that would follow if we ignored every notion that had support from 98% of the scientific community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    The idea of substantial human induced global warming and the subsequent apocalyptic effects are an incarnation of arrogance of that human.
    We just want to think its our fault.

    We've found the idea of killing all of humanity appealing since around the same time humanity was first composed. The ultimate expression of this is are nuclear missiles.

    Don't you feel like God with that much killing power? To be that potent!
    Even if it is for a good cause, you can't deny the ego rush that does inevitably ensue from thinking that you just might be the one to end it all.

    And then the second wind the ego gets from learning it can direct the body to prevent imminent damnation!
    To be that potent!
    That's all sort of fascinating, but it's just psychological analysis that doesn't actually shed any light on the validity of the theory itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    I mean really -- don't any of you think there are more pressing issues?
    We've got a projected hundred years to work on this before we really start feeling it [which to me is very suspicious -- merely coincidence that I'll be dead by the time I suppose], so shouldn't we y'know... focus on things that are fucking us in the ass right now?

    It may be time to reevaluate our priorities.
    The main argument here is that the environmental crisis works in terms of thresholds and chain reactions. When dealing with things of that nature, you have to act in advance, even before you're feeling most of the effects. Certain symptoms are signs that you've already lost. It's like rabies.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #94
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    And do you note the social pressure that has been brought to bear on me due to this lack of conformity? Is that how truth is revealed?
    It's how policy and social acceptance during times of change is handled. It doesn't matter if you believe, or not, except in human terms. Truth will be revealed far more readily if we do nothing.

  5. #95
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That's all sort of fascinating, but it's just psychological analysis that doesn't actually shed any light on the validity of the theory itself.
    That's true.

    I think I started off with the intention to make relevant points but... I didn't.



    The main argument here is that the environmental crisis works in terms of thresholds and chain reactions. When dealing with things of that nature, you have to act in advance, even before you're feeling most of the effects.
    Maybe, but that's not really the point. The point is, we have 100 years (or however long). We could spend the first half of that working on things that need done now, and then the other half fixing this problem.
    Certain symptoms are signs that you've already lost. It's like rabies.
    How certain are you of that?
    It seems like they only way you could be sure that's correct is if we've already reached and passed the point of no return, in which case this is an obsolete discussion, as are any brainstorming about solutions.

    And yet it's still one of the most prevalent ideas in the public (with minor distractions like Pig Flu and Barrack Obama) and science.

    Besides that, global temperature increase doesn't spell the end of the planet or the end of life or even the end of humanity.
    It might probably make everyone real uncomfortable -- I'm not talking about skin contact with the air. I'm more educated than that -- but "you've already lost" is a joke.
    we fukin won boys

  6. #96
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Another angle to this. A real imminent threat lies within two or more previously isolated currents joining which will either create an overall cooling or warming of at least the ocean temperature. Should it cool we will soon experience another ice age. Should it warm up we will soon experience all that other stuff like hurricanes, massive storms ect. Or hell, endo it and the same outcome appears. Sure we can say that all our coal burning makes an ice seperation of 2 previously isolated currents become one flow. But does that newly married flow warm up or cool down the overall temp of the ocean.

    Another BIG factor are gasses immitted from under the ocean itself through underwater volcanos, earth crust shifting, ect.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  7. #97
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    How would you guys comment this?





    This is a picture of arctic ice cap in autumn 2008. There is so little ice that you can sail around the cap. Since it has no connection with continents. What is very good indicator of changes.

  8. #98
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How would you guy comment this?
    ...I can tell mee-sa needs to brush up on my Gungan...

  9. #99
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    I agree with everything that ajblaise has written. Journalists have a practice of showing both sides to any story, even if it makes no real sense to do so. Reading some of the articles on climate change in the US (and this is an analogy, no need to pull it apart) is like reading an article about astronomy and finding an interview with a member of a flat earth society included just to make the story 'balanced'.

    I personally know quite a few scientists working in this area. I have to say it's getting old and tiresome to have their work, and the many thousands also working in the field, dismissed as being the work of crackpots.

    IMO, the conclusions of the IPCC are likely to be an underestimate of the possible impacts. Where I live (SE Australia), the climate models are predicting that climate change will cause an increase in droughts and hotter summers. The Murray Darling Basin, which is about 2000 miles long, is currently experiencing the worst drought on record. Each year, the records are being smashed. Current inflows to the MDB are half (yes, half) of the previous worst drought.

    It's too early to say whether this has been caused by climate change - IMO, you need more years of data before you can say whether there's been a shift in climate. But, it is definitely a taste of things to come if climate change does kick in. I don't want to sit by and risk every farmer lose their job because there is no water, and for inland towns to become unviable due to lack of water. I also don't want to see the horrific bushfires in Victoria (death toll was around 200) become the norm.

    I expect there's no argument that is going to change Oberon's mind, but I'm not writing this for him.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  10. #100
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    I expect there's no argument that is going to change Oberon's mind, but I'm not writing this for him.
    Oh, I fully agree that the climate is changing. I don't doubt that for a minute. No need to convince this mouse, and I mean that with all seriousness.

    I'm simply unconvinced that humans are to blame for it.

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