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Thread: Torture

  1. #11
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Cutting and pasting from a media kit highlighting dubious achievements (from their own website) does not change what I wrote. And I already said that the one good thing is the WHO, so not sure what to make of all this. I stand by my original statement, and I made that decision already knowing the things that you listed above.
    It sounds like they've helped millions of people. What more do you expect of them? How much more power and funds would you give them to achieve your expectations?

  2. #12
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    It sounds like they've helped millions of people. What more do you expect of them? How much more power and funds would you give them to achieve your expectations?
    It certainly sounds like it, but it's simply not the case. Don't believe the hype. Just google UN and failure, or UN and genocide, or UN and security council. Or the Balkans, or Central Africa, Rwanda, Yugoslavia, UNESCO, Israel/Palestine, Indonesia, etc... Google how many UN peacekeeping missions that have ended in child rape. The organization was formed to stop genocide, yet they sit back and watch it every day. Pointless. And who funds the lions share of UN?

    I have no desire to argue with you once again. Just do your own research and come to your own conclusion. If you support the UN, great for you. I don't, so great for me. Done.

  3. #13
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    It certainly sounds like it, but it's simply not the case. Don't believe the hype. Just google UN and failure, or UN and genocide, or UN and security council. Or the Balkans, or Central Africa, Rwanda, Yugoslavia, UNESCO, Israel/Palestine, Indonesia, etc... Google how many UN peacekeeping missions that have ended in child rape. The organization was formed to stop genocide, yet they sit back and watch it every day. Pointless. And who funds the lions share of UN?

    I have no desire to argue with you once again. Just do your own research and come to your own conclusion. If you support the UN, great for you. I don't, so great for me. Done.
    What would your alternative be to the UN? Just trying to know if you think anything should replace them and deal with things like war and genocide more proactively. Not trying to argue, I've just never heard someone try to articulate it.

  4. #14
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I don't think we should replace it. Besides the WHO, most of the good has been done in conjunction with other organizations such as Red Cross, Amnesty International, Doctors w/o Borders, etc. I say divide that $4billion operating budget up between these organizations.

    I'm against forming strict alliances. I think America needs to be a sovereign nation.

    However, I think that NATO will be a key player in this administration. We'll see...

  5. #15
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    What do you make of this?
    I don't think it's news that this one country can make or break its own rules at whim. It's a large part of their international, ah, reputation at the moment.

  6. #16
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    waterboarding should be used, but only with extreme discretion. if information gleaned from an interrogation can save just one life then it was worth it.

    to all of you who think that the world has reached (or will reach) a level of civilization that is above war, conflict or yes even torture, you're living in a dream world. human nature is not going to change. it can be sugar coated, but in the end as long as there is a scarcity of resources there will be conflict.

    simply because most of the world has enjoyed relative peace for the last 60 some odd years does not mean it will last forever and it does not mean that this is the "default" state of mankind. there have to be incentives towards peace and cooperation. onces the incentives go, so goes the peace.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  7. #17
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    If (IF) torture could be proven to be a useful, reliable way to get at the truth (and to save lives etc.) than I would be open to a debate, and honestly don't know where my opinion would be.

    But, given that it can't even be said to work for practical reasons, that combined with the obvious numerous moral issues make me say nope.

    It's an interesting topic though. How far is anyone willing to go to reach their objective? Could an argument be made that if one is up against an enemy who's willing to go as far as necessary, that one should also be willing to do so? Just out of practicality/not wanting to be in a position of weakness from the start?
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  8. #18
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    But, given that it can't even be said to work for practical reasons, that combined with the obvious numerous moral issues make me say nope.
    in some cases, it does work. saying it doesn't work *at all* is naive. part of cheney's recent public complaints about the memo release is that obama didn't release the records of the incidents where it did in fact lead to solid information which then lead to US action against terrorist plots.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    I have no qualms against using torture, I also dont believe people are born with inherit rights just cause their human.

    Torture, as horrible as it is, if used correctly can be a great tool. Not just for its use in gaining information, but also as an intimidation factor. War is war.

    Ill quote my own sig just to make my point again.


    "In starting and waging a war it is not right that matters, but victory."-Adolf Hitler
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  10. #20
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    in some cases, it does work. saying it doesn't work *at all* is naive.
    I didn't say it *never* works, but again re: the practical application of torture, how can you know? How can you know the info you've gotten is legit? It just doesn't seem reliable enough to be a good solution, imo.

    Also, did an ENFP just quote Hitler? *shocked face*
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

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