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  1. #11
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    So then there is nothing that makes a student stand out to a college?

    Nerds that are completely incompetent at sports can't get into good schools?

    We'll only have these super-freaks in college that can somehow handle everything, and then burn out in a matter of two years after they leave??

    Dayum.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #12
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    So then there is nothing that makes a student stand out to a college?

    Nerds that are completely incompetent at sports can't get into good schools?

    We'll only have these super-freaks in college that can somehow handle everything, and then burn out in a matter of two years after they leave??

    Dayum.
    I'm not sure what you are referencing here, but I don't believe anything currently or anything Obama plans to implement would force sports onto people, perhaps I'm missing something.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    I'm assuming you didn't look at Obama's education bill, notice I said 8+ hours of school, not 12 as defined by 8 to 8 (I'm assuming you can look up a bill with little ease vs a goal by Obama's educational advisor). Obama wants to increase the school hours, initiate performance based pay for teachers (this piece is a good thing), among other things, but he definitely wants to increase school daily hours, and the school year.

    You can argue for or against such, but please, do basic research before criticizing my claims as invalid

    http://obama.3cdn.net/a8dfc36246b3dcc3cb_iem6bxpgh.pdf

    top of page 12
    I think many people were under the impression that it was going to be a 12 hour day. A 12 hour school day would be foolish to the umpteenth degree. To be honest, I think that the current school day is long enough; it could even perhaps be shortened, with non-necessary periods removed, and then give students the opportunity to choose more after-school activities that allow for customized learning. Or even just include those activities in. Many students learn okay in the current system, but could be benefitted if schools would think outside the box.

    But I thought many posts were operating under the idea that school could last 12 hours. That's preposterous; no one in their right mind would suggest that.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I think many people were under the impression that it was going to be a 12 hour day. A 12 hour school day would be foolish to the umpteenth degree. To be honest, I think that the current school day is long enough; it could even perhaps be shortened, with non-necessary periods removed, and then give students the opportunity to choose more after-school activities that allow for customized learning. Or even just include those activities in. Many students learn okay in the current system, but could be benefitted if schools would think outside the box.

    But I thought many posts were operating under the idea that school could last 12 hours. That's preposterous; no one in their right mind would suggest that.

    I can see that being misleading, so I'm sorry about that, that wasn't my intent, I was using that more as the maximum that it can theoretically go (while providing more on Obama's plans), 7 to 8 hours currently, no longer than 12 hours. (the exact increase wasn't given, so I gave a range, since the school cummunity wouldn't last longer than 12 hours, it can't go past 12 hours)

    I also agree with your proposed solutions too.

  5. #15
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    I'm not sure what you are referencing here, but I don't believe anything currently or anything Obama plans to implement would force sports onto people, perhaps I'm missing something.
    You are missing the ridiculous standards students must force upon themselves if they want to get into college. It's that simple.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #16
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    You are missing the ridiculous standards students must force upon themselves if they want to get into college. It's that simple.
    I'm in a pretty decent college, and don't participate in any official sport activity/team myself, and I'm not required to do so (I do take physical classes though, fencing, archery, weights, self defense, first aide, etc).

    If we are talking about top notch schools (like the top 15 schools within the US), then, they can set their standards as they like. They are top notch for a reason

    but most colleges don't requrie that.


    If we are talking about adademic standards (though I believe you were talking about the physical standards), I don't believe they should be lowered to accomidate students.


    I guess I'm still at a lost at what initiated the original claim, I think that is where my confusion rests, as I'm not sure if its about my topic or just a plain issue in general.

  7. #17
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    You don't need longer hours... you need more effective and enthusiastic teachers. Teachers who'll push the kids to do the best they can at their current level. Not just good enough to make a bar set far too low.
    +1

    Public education is bound to fail miserably when brutally under-funded.

    Look at Japan--teachers are paid like doctors. As a result, teaching in public schools is actually a competitive field, and so you get good teachers.

    What a novel idea.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #18
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    +1

    Public education is bound to fail miserably when brutally under-funded.

    Look at Japan--teachers are paid like doctors. As a result, teaching in public schools is actually a competitive field, and so you get good teachers.

    What a novel idea.
    About half of Ca money goes to education (at least this has been the case since 2001 to 2007, the budget does change, this is a rough number).

    Doesn't nesesarily mean its going to teachers, but lots of money is diverted to education.

  9. #19
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    You don't need longer hours... you need more effective and enthusiastic teachers. Teachers who'll push the kids to do the best they can at their current level. Not just good enough to make a bar set far too low.
    The only fix that is needed... or the one that would dominate everything else... merit based teachers and the infrastructure to support it.

  10. #20
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Merit-based civil servants?

    Pff. Impossible.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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