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  1. #11
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Fascism and socialism are not absolute objects with a specific form, they are general terms used to generally describe general systems that people generally create. The only use of the words is in loosely comparing systems to each other, not actually DEFINING them for what they are. You of all people should know that after studying them as much as I know you have. What Glenn is pointing to is that it's moving towards something that would resemble a fascist system but without the violent coercion. Rather that comparing it to fascism, it would be more accurate to pinpoint all of the qualities our system may come to possess as a total set that is unique to our own situation, but people rarely do this anyway and just flippently compare real systems in the present to basic comparative definitions solely built upon observations of past systems and only truly applying to the past systems that spawned the definitions in the first place.
    Fascism by its very nature is a violent ideology; whether talking specifically of Mussolini or "fascism" in general. My argument still stands about our system largely being one of "Managerialism"; not fascism or socialism per se.

  2. #12
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Do you understand fascism or socialism? Or do you just suppose that you can identify the level of understanding one has about an issue which you yourself know little about?
    Simmer down. Refrain from ad hominem attacks.
    What I know is not the issue. I am not a public figure, GB is. Therefore his knowledge is subject to critique, even my an idjiot like me.
    If you don't like my posting my opinion on this board, ban me. Go ahead.

    Fascist.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Fascism by its very nature is a violent ideology; whether talking specifically of Mussolini or "fascism" in general. My argument still stands about our system largely being one of "Managerialism"; not fascism or socialism per se.
    Ah, the world of human semantics, definitions, concepts, and constructs. Fascism, as per the systems the definitions was derived from, is certainly violent in nature. However, that is not the soul aspect to it. If it were, communism and fascism would be synonymous. The more you delve into the particulars of what we CHOOSE to call fascism or whatever "ism", the more we get into specifics that only apply to specific systems that were set up in the past. Thus, the definitions fail to have any objective or universal application. I agree with you that people can make piss pour comparisons of different systems to commonly held definitions, but it's not as if they exist objectively or in any way beyond what human constructs we choose to clump under the said definitions.

    As for the specifics of how a fascistic system without the more violent aspects of control could be compared to the direction our system is headed in, that would probably best be discussed in an old thread of yours that is in great need of being resurrected .

  4. #14
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    As for the specifics of how a fascistic system without the more violent aspects of control could be compared to the direction our system is headed in, that would probably best be discussed in an old thread of yours that is in great need of being resurrected .
    Maybe tomorrow I will.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Simmer down. Refrain from ad hominem attacks.
    What I know is not the issue. I am not a public figure, GB is. Therefore his knowledge is subject to critique, even my an idjiot like me.
    If you don't like my posting my opinion on this board, ban me. Go ahead.

    Fascist.
    Lol. I wasn't attacking you. I was just curious if you actually had any reasons for supposing that he doesn't know anything about an issue, considering that judgment would inherently require a fair amount of knowledge on the same subject, by the one making the judgment. I don't have any control over you, say what you want.

  6. #16
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Simmer down. Refrain from ad hominem attacks.
    What I know is not the issue. I am not a public figure, GB is. Therefore his knowledge is subject to critique, even my an idjiot like me.
    If you don't like my posting my opinion on this board, ban me. Go ahead.

    Fascist.
    Risen can't ban you from the forum any more than you can ban him. But please don't call names.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #17
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Do you understand fascism or socialism? Or do you just suppose that you can identify the level of understanding one has about an issue which you yourself know little about?

    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Simmer down. Refrain from ad hominem attacks.
    What I know is not the issue. I am not a public figure, GB is. Therefore his knowledge is subject to critique, even my an idjiot like me.
    If you don't like my posting my opinion on this board, ban me. Go ahead.

    Fascist.
    That's not an ad hominem attack if you truly don't know much on the subject or if one makes claims without base.

    Just defend your claims, or admit a lack of merit.

  8. #18
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    That's not an ad hominem attack if you truly don't know much on the subject or if one makes claims without base.

    Just defend your claims, or admit a lack of merit.
    Fascism as I understand it, requires violence in order to control the media, and in order to repress opposing political views, intellectuals, anyone who opposes you...That is not the case in this country.
    what GB refers to is simply the normal ebb and flow of power in our political system. Dems said similar things about the last administration.
    Either what he is referring to is not fascism, or he is trying to use the negative association people naturally have with that word, to paint the party currently in power. If that's the case (and I'm pretty sure it is), then it's purposefully misleading.

  9. #19
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Risen, by my intuition, if you knew half as much about politics as you like to make out surely one would reasonably expect you to comprehend with ease the simple task of at least acknowledging that fascism has next to nothing to do with economics; would they not?

    It leads to another question, why are you either unable or unwilling to accept Hitler was a fiscal moderate, Stalin was a Communist, and Pinochet free-market capitalist despite all of whom considered fascist by most rational people? To put it another way, your comments would be like me using your logic to say Ronald Reagan is fascistic because he was arguable a bigger Military Keynesian than Hitler, Pinochet, and Stalin put together.

    In short, your comments like Glen Beck's are nugatory McCarthyism at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  10. #20
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Fascism as I understand it, requires violence in order to control the media, and in order to repress opposing political views, intellectuals, anyone who opposes you...That is not the case in this country.
    what GB refers to is simply the normal ebb and flow of power in our political system. Dems said similar things about the last administration.
    Either what he is referring to is not fascism, or he is trying to use the negative association people naturally have with that word, to paint the party currently in power. If that's the case (and I'm pretty sure it is), then it's purposefully misleading.
    I have no clue what GB said (at least in context), as I already mentioned I don't listen to him.

    But I agree, mud slinging is nothing new in our political system, I have no doubt that celebrity polititions do such, and I know both sides partake in such.

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