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  1. #1
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Question Whats wrong with Marxism?

    I entirely afgree that there are alot of things wrong with Marx's analysis of capitalism, but given this ,thjere are also alot of truths in there about his prophesy of the destrcction of capitalism.

    Now, my explanaytion of communism's failure is that is driven by food crisis and starvation (such as the great leap foward in China) I want to hear about your people's opinions of Marx and capitalism.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

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  2. #2
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    The problem is, humans don't willingly allow themselves to be classed and processed. And that is exactly what capitalism does.

    The opposite, giving a human the full freedom to do what he/she wishes with his life, without boundaries, however... Well, that promotes chaos. (Anarchy)

    I'm definatly not a capitalist. Would rather prefer anarchy over it in fact. And if human decide to blow each other up through means of anarchy, then perhaps that is the fate we deserve as a race.
    But frankly, there's no such thing as a perfect political philosophy.

    The main flaws with capitalism in general remains to be rigorous classification of order.

    The few things that Marxism does promote that are in my opinion great ideals on their own, is for example his idea of exploitation. That if a person does more work then he needs to provide for himself, he is being exploited. And if a person does not work enough to provide for himself. He is exploiting. This promotes a certain balance between us and the world/nature. However, it is flawed in the sense that not everyone is capable of providing for himself, and some people are capable of providing for many.

    Marxism is a compilation of very black and white ideals, based on extremes and absolutes. Principles worth chasing, but not principles worth perfecting.

    History shows, that marxism gave birth to more hipocrits then any other political philosophy.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Marxism is highly idealized and takes no account of basic human drives, like: competition, ambition, and thus, motivation

  4. #4
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    How about Marx didn't even believe in it the way we now understand it?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

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  5. #5
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    How about Marx didn't even believe in it the way we now understand it?
    Care to explain the ambiguous statement?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  6. #6
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    cloud, wouldn't the fact that capitalism still exists and that the world is FAR richer today than it was in Marx's time kinda refute his writings on the matter? And the fact that his Labor Theory of Value was proven incorrect? And that no state has ever had a proletarian revolution that ever actually created a classless, stateless workers' society?

    I mean, these are just things that anyone of any political stripe can look at and see how Marx's reasoning didn't hold up over time. Personally, I hate Marxism with a passion, and I think that it's very, very wrong in both its aims and its real world application.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #7
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    The problem is, humans don't willingly allow themselves to be classed and processed. And that is exactly what capitalism does.
    How so?

    The opposite, giving a human the full freedom to do what he/she wishes with his life, without boundaries, however... Well, that promotes chaos. (Anarchy)

    I'm definatly not a capitalist. Would rather prefer anarchy over it in fact. And if human decide to blow each other up through means of anarchy, then perhaps that is the fate we deserve as a race.
    But frankly, there's no such thing as a perfect political philosophy.

    The main flaws with capitalism in general remains to be rigorous classification of order.
    You do realize that capitalism is closer to anarchy than socialism, and MUCH closer to anarchy than communism, right?

    The definition of anarchy is the absence of government. Capitalism favors minimal government intervention (at least in economic affairs), socialism involves partial government intervention, and during communism government controls all means of production and distribution.

    The few things that Marxism does promote that are in my opinion great ideals on their own, is for example his idea of exploitation. That if a person does more work then he needs to provide for himself, he is being exploited. And if a person does not work enough to provide for himself. He is exploiting. This promotes a certain balance between us and the world/nature. However, it is flawed in the sense that not everyone is capable of providing for himself, and some people are capable of providing for many.

    Marxism is a compilation of very black and white ideals, based on extremes and absolutes. Principles worth chasing, but not principles worth perfecting.

    History shows, that marxism gave birth to more hipocrits then any other political philosophy.
    Every time I hear someone professing a benevolent master plan for humanity, I get nervous.

    A lot of seemingly benevolent concepts end up in corruption and oppression - organized religion, communism, etc.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    I entirely afgree that there are alot of things wrong with Marx's analysis of capitalism, but given this ,thjere are also alot of truths in there about his prophesy of the destrcction of capitalism.

    Now, my explanaytion of communism's failure is that is driven by food crisis and starvation (such as the great leap foward in China) I want to hear about your people's opinions of Marx and capitalism.
    I got a random question for you, cloud (interpret the question any way you like and answer, if you want):

    Do you think Mao failed*? If so, why? If not, why not?

    *take 'fail' to mean any way you want, and, if you can outline how you've chosen to evaluate 'fail'.

  9. #9
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    How so?



    You do realize that capitalism is closer to anarchy than socialism, and MUCH closer to anarchy than communism, right?

    The definition of anarchy is the absence of government. Capitalism favors minimal government intervention (at least in economic affairs), socialism involves partial government intervention, and during communism government controls all means of production and distribution.



    Every time I hear someone professing a benevolent master plan for humanity, I get nervous.

    A lot of seemingly benevolent concepts end up in corruption and oppression - organized religion, communism, etc.

    To be fair, Marx's view of communism was that workers would spontaneously revolt, first in one area, then around the world. There would be a time of socialist government, but it was supposed to "wither and die" and end up in a stateless society in which the workers controlled the means of production directly. Obviously, that cannot happen. The period of socialist government doesn't end, and it results invariably in totalitarianism. Marx was wrong, but no communist state has even come close to the idealized workers' utopia he posited. Unfortunately, a lot of idiots on the far left deduce from this that "Well, Lenin and Stalin and Castro and Mao were all totalitarians! A true communist state has never existed! It can work!" They haven't figured out that it cannot happen. The dictatorship of the proletariat doesn't wither and die. It isn't even "of the proletariat." It always ends in oppression.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #10
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    How so?
    Curiosity killed the cat. Humans won't allow themselves to be contained. They will want to feel they made their own choices. Even if you train all humans from birth to follow one specific form without any leniency. There will those that search for more, that need more. It's a primal instinct we all have I think. Sure there will be people that will stick with defeat rather then surrendering to their impulses, but I'm certain that will be impossible to achieve for an entire population.

    You do realize that capitalism is closer to anarchy than socialism, and MUCH closer to anarchy than communism, right?

    The definition of anarchy is the absence of government. Capitalism favors minimal government intervention (at least in economic affairs), socialism involves partial government intervention, and during communism government controls all means of production and distribution.
    Actually, I disagree. Capitalism is about as far from anarchy as communism is. Capitalism impairs the individual freedom by strict common ideals and a strict common ruleset. Minimal government intervention sure, but based on a very strict social order. And a strict, very idealistic, ruleset.

    Whilest anarchy is based on complete individual freedom. I agree that doesn't work as a society with a large population. But the difference between capitalism and anarchy is really far apart.


    Every time I hear someone professing a benevolent master plan for humanity, I get nervous.

    A lot of seemingly benevolent concepts end up in corruption and oppression - organized religion, communism, etc.
    Precisely. That is why idealistic philosophies such as capitalism simple doesn't work. And this is why democratic and such systems do work. As it's the most freedom that can be achieved, without losing a structural society. Because humans will not allow themselves to be contained. But we do have the intelligence to know that full-blown anarchy does not benefit humanity ultimatly either, so we compromise.

    As I said, the ideals of capitalism, marxism, are in itself not ill-conceived and show theoritical merit. But they are simply not practical to be lived to the rule. We are not that perfect. We're a chaotic breed that can't deny/cut off our own impulses.

    Even if the ideals are ever so righteous. They are simple not meant for us!

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