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  1. #301
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Nope. Little people don't make it to the history books. Care to name any non-famous men from history?
    A few women having an influential role in history books does not translate into the majority of women having influence within their own little lives.

    There are certain societies that did give more influence to women than others. Like the Mongols, for example. But still, it has never been equal, really.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #302
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Same with men.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    You're cute when you're angry. Now back in the kitchen with you.

    Which leads to my point...

    No one can make you feel a certain way. Nothing anyone says or does should matter to you if you are master of yourself. Marriage is not responsible for robbing one of self-mastery. No man can make you disrespect yourself. No one can make you a victim.
    I was never a victim. I did lose respect for myself, but that was because I stayed as long as I did. It had nothing to with him, I've said all along this was about me and the kind of person I am. And, again, I'm glad I live in a time when it's okay for me to be this kind of person. Marriage doesn't make for happy children. Healthy, reasonably content parents do.

  4. #304
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    I was never a victim. I did lose respect for myself, but that was because I stayed as long as I did. It had nothing to with him, I've said all along this was about me and the kind of person I am. And, again, I'm glad I live in a time when it's okay for me to be this kind of person. Marriage doesn't make for happy children. Healthy, reasonably content parents do.
    True. And marriage helps if that condition is met!
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #305
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Famous people don't represent the entire picture. Famous people are privileged, so it's no surprise that the famous women you can name had a lot of power and influence. Doesn't prove that in a cross-section of the culture that women in general held equal power and influence to men.

    I don't think history has been one long litany of misery for women or that men have had it easy, but let's not put on the rose-tinted history glasses either.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #306
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    For those interested, here's an interesting article concerning the research done by the historian Christopher Dawson on the institution of patriarchy:
    First Principles - A Dawsonian View of Patriarchy

    And here's Dawson's exact essay on the issue too:
    The Patriarchal Family in History

  7. #307
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    1. I've never been married. I've had a total of 12 years of cohabitation that have led me to my current point of view with respect to being pro-marriage.
    2. I am extremely idealistic. I went from idealism, to cynicism, back to idealism. If I get cynical again I will kill myself.
    Realize that your personal value that favors marriage is based on personal experience and makes your position the same in principle as those posters making a case against marriage based on their experiences. You are arguing the exact same principle, that personal experience can reasonably dictate personal choices for striving for a better future.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    True. And marriage helps if that condition is met!
    Definitely, but for many of us, marriage itself precludes that from being a possibility.

  9. #309
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    Definitely, but for many of us, marriage itself precludes that from being a possibility.
    I don't think marriage is the problem. The individual jerks are the problem.

    Edit: Not always jerks; it can also be just mismatched people or people who have not grown concurrently or etc etc etc.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think marriage is the problem. The individual jerks are the problem.

    Edit: Not always jerks; it can also be just mismatched people or people who have not grown concurrently or etc etc etc.
    That's also a distinct possibility, but as an F-less soul, I tend to evaluate a mate on matters of practicality...and then end up with a distinct sense there's something just not right about the deal. I have no hostility toward anyone I've been involved with really, for the most part they've been very good men, but I don't really believe there is a match for me. I say that with no sadness or regret, but with the full awareness that marriage, as a permanent commitment, is not an option for a person of my ilk. I also don't think I'm the only woman like this, and if we were men, no one would hold the desire for autonomy or solitude against us. I'm just a happier camper when I know I can get out cleanly. Marriage makes for messy departures.

    And truth be told, I really really need time alone. The kind of time you can't get when you share a bed with someone every night.

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