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  1. #291
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I will listen to you when you stop dissing marriage. No one is really acknowledging the other side. Don't clamor for the moral high ground. I'm more than willing to listen to someone who is equally open-minded. But, your mind is made up. As is juggernauts. So... what am I listening for? There is no potential for exchange or accommodation. Only for defense of cherished institutions.
    I didn't say anything about marriage. I was speaking solely about you saying we had the freedom and power to reproduce at will, and a statement about keeping our legs closed and birth control. None of what you said refuted what I just wrote. I'm not clamoring for anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I thought you left?
    I felt I needed to say that. It was important to me.

  2. #292
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I felt I needed to say that. It was important to me.
    Yea, I know. I'm just ribbing you.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #293
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Maybe not completely equal, but also not some blasted wasteland of female suffering and subjugation. Women have always wielded considerable influence! Macbeth! Is this based on fantasy?
    The reason why you hear about these women is because they're famous for gaining influence. There are few of them. It's like hearing about shark attacks. You're more likely to get bitten by a pig than by a shark, but you hear about the shark because it's more uncommon and interesting -- thus leading people to believe that it's common.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #294
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    All it takes it two ignorant males to remind us of why it is preferable to raise one's children alone. If my husband had been this stupid, I would have left after ten minutes, not years.

  5. #295
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    All it takes it two ignorant males to remind us of why it is preferable to raise one's children alone. If my husband had been this stupid, I would have left after ten minutes, not years.
    My biggest fear is the role of men will not include any responsibility to the family, as he will not be expected to take care of his children. Possible creating a sex and split culture. I think this gives men too much freedom which will allow them to detached themself from their responsibilites.

    You seem very confident that men should stay out of the family, I believe they still serve an overall benefit in modern society as part of the family (on a societal level).

  6. #296
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Maybe not completely equal, but also not some blasted wasteland of female suffering and subjugation. Women have akways wielded considerable influence! Macbeth! Is this based on fantasy?
    Does it not strike you as a little odd that all of your examples of "influential women" have been women who were born into a title or position of power? What does a powerful queen/noblewoman/whatevs have to do with opportunities for women in general, compared to men of the same class? Did any women actually get play Lady Macbeth on Shakespeare's stage? IIRC all the female roles were played by boys. What would happen to a woman who wanted to act in that era? That opportunity was not open to her, except as an occasional stand-in for a boy who wasn't able to fulfill the role.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #297
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    All it takes it two ignorant males to remind us of why it is preferable to raise one's children alone. If my husband had been this stupid, I would have left after ten minutes, not years.
    You're cute when you're angry. Now back in the kitchen with you.

    Which leads to my point...

    No one can make you feel a certain way. Nothing anyone says or does should matter to you if you are master of yourself. Marriage is not responsible for robbing one of self-mastery. No man can make you disrespect yourself. No one can make you a victim.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #298
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    I guess the life of a male serf was a walk in the park as well eh? Well I guess if compared to a male factory worker in the 19th century, as William Cobbett noted in his histories of England.

  9. #299
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Does it not strike you as a little odd that all of your examples of "influential women" have been women who were born into a title or position of power? What does a powerful queen/noblewoman/whatevs have to do with opportunities for women in general, compared to men of the same class? Did any women actually get play Lady Macbeth on Shakespeare's stage? IIRC all the female roles were played by boys. What would happen to a woman who wanted to act in that era? That opportunity was not open to her, except as an occasional stand-in for a boy who wasn't able to fulfill the role.
    Nope. Little people don't make it to the history books. Care to name any non-famous men from history?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    My biggest fear is the role of men will not include any responsibility to the family, as he will not be expected to take care of his children.

    You seem very confident that men should stay out of the family, I believe they still serve as an overall benefit in modern society.
    They do provide us with new genetic material, that's definitely a plus!

    Actually, all sarcasm aside, I do agree with you. My children spend a lot of time with their fathers and I'm happy to have it that way (we even spend holidays, birthdays, and vacations together). I did choose good mates, men who are kind, decent, hard-working and interested in the well-being of our kids. I am just not a good wife (see earlier posts regarding this). I was never one to cheat, and I did as much as I was capable of doing as a wife, but marriage never felt like anything other than a very drawn-out and painful illness to me.

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