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  1. #91
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    This is what I mean.

    More and more, women don't choose to work when they have young children. Rather, they are forced to to maintain an economic status that they had before, and even take second jobs, just to make ends meet, even if there is the support of a husband and he is working, too.

    The male may be increasing the income, but what about everything else? Is he helping?
    If I didn't have to work, I wouldn't either, women with or without children both work, so children don't change that in our society (one of the debates taking place here are the social values of society).

    Also if the males support barely allows the group to make ends meet, how is the single mother going to be doing this?


    Are you serious on the last part, (remember were talking about couples in general), your significant other is a source of emotional support, time, money, and stability.

    Which in turn create higher frequencies of happy, productive famlies.

  2. #92
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    1. Change doesn't happen through government mandate. People must decide what is important to them. If enough people chose to give a shit, things could change.
    2. Sure we can. Think how much money would be saved from daycare, from divorce, from eating fast food and dining out, from health problems related to stress. Our societal disintegration incurs major costs.
    1. How did these traditions start in the first place? How many people chose to give a shit? Or was it more a natural shift to what seemed best at the time, that was eventually cemented into society?

    2. How does that save money again? Wouldn't that incur losses for daycares, lawyers, fast food restaurants, and doctors? As you said, it's not really about the individual.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #93
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    You say first that women and men can never be equal. You say again that humans have natural antisocial tendencies which means they can change.
    Men and women can never be equal and still remain men and women. This does not mean they do not have equal value in society, just that we cannot pretend that men and women are the same.

    I'm not asking for equal numbers of women construction workers to men. I'm asking for under society's eye, not a biological point of view. I'm talking about getting rid of this whole 'spheres' business. Because while women have relatively successfully penetrated the man's traditional sphere of influence, men have been avoiding reciprocating.
    Nice, in theory. I wouldn't want my company's leadership chosen on the basis of gender equality.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #94
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Are you serious on the last part, (remember were talking about couples in general), your significant other is a source of emotional support, time, money, and stability.

    Which in turn creates higher frequencies of happy, productive famlies.
    Perhaps my own -- and others' -- experience is coloring this too much.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #95
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm seriously out of this conversation, but am still interested in your viewpoint and I want to get some clarification: why should the family unit be valued? (and make no mistake, I don't devalue it - I'm just wondering what it means to you). what actual harm has come to society with the advent of unwed relationships - you mentioned selfishness - but what specifically?

    Ok, backing out again now...
    1. The family unit, if supportive, strengthens each member. Look at it this way, in the work environment do teams work better than individuals alone? If you needed to survive in the wilderness, would it be easier alone or with a group? Life is like this. Who taught you what you know? Who helped nurture who you are? Who protected you and cared for you? This is family. Biological kinship is the quickest strongest way to get there.

    2. Unwed relationships are not as strong. Because typically, if people are serious and committed they will commit to each other and marry. They will put aside their fears and anxieties and they will form a unit.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #96
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Perhaps my own -- and others' -- experience is coloring this too much.
    Fair enough, our views are based on experience so no fault there.

    I'm just pointing out that a male role model (along everything else I mentioned) is benificial.

    Basic message: men have more use than just for sex and cash, Dam.

  7. #97
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Basic message: men more use than just for sex and cash, Dam.
    ...really?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #98
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    1. The family unit, if supportive, strengthens each member. Look at it this way, in the work environment do teams work better than individuals alone? If you needed to survive in the wilderness, would it be easier alone or with a group? Life is like this. Who taught you what you know? Who helped nurture who you are? Who protected you and cared for you? This is family. Biological kinship is the quickest strongest way to get there.

    2. Unwed relationships are not as strong. Because typically, if people are serious and committed they will commit to each other and marry. They will put aside their fears and anxieties and they will form a unit.
    #1 I agree with.
    #2 I don't. Commitment can be independent of marriage, and also families can be nontraditional single or plural households.
    Thanks for answering the questions - enjoy the rest of your night!

  9. #99
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    ...really?
    Unless I translated this wrong and that wasn't what you were getting at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The male may be increasing the income, but what about everything else? Is he helping?

  10. #100
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Unless I translated this wrong and that wasn't what you were getting at.
    Nothing. I'm just surprised such rare creatures actually exist.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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