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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yes, they're called "heretics". After all Orthodox means "right thinking".


    You're absolutely insane. There's no empirical way to give greater value to one subjective belief system over another. Satanists, Scientologists, and Catholics are all the same to logical people.

  2. #42
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    This is true, but not everyone is part of an orthodox religious branch. The moderate and liberal branches, are allowed to celebrate it in their way too.

    Obama belonged to a church that accepted gays and promoted their rights. So, his way of celebrating Christian Easter is inviting gays from all over the country. That doesn't invalidate his branch of Christian beliefs.

    My friend's mom is the pastor of a liberal Catholic church. Not only do they accept gays, but they believe they should be able to marry. Not everyone is fundamentalist slant. Nor will all Christians be offended by Obama's action, because there are far more liberal denominations in religion than the ultra conservative ones.


    I don't know if I would go so far as to say Obama's church promoted gay rights. Reverend Wright has echoed AIDS conspiracy theories and praised Louis Farrakhan, who is a notorious anti-Semite and homophobe. He obviously doesn't speak for the entire congregation, but it's not nearly so cut-and-dried as you are suggesting.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #43
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post


    You're absolutely insane.
    You stand corrected. Peguy is IN(F)J. What does sanity have to do with a homosexual Easter?
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I don't know if I would go so far as to say Obama's church promoted gay rights. Reverend Wright has echoed AIDS conspiracy theories and praised Louis Farrakhan, who is a notorious anti-Semite and homophobe. He obviously doesn't speak for the entire congregation, but it's not nearly so cut-and-dried as you are suggesting.
    Yes. I would go that far and more.


    Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama’s controversial ex-pastor in Chicago has largely supported gay rights and has welcomed gays into his 8,000-member congregation at Trinity United Church of Christ, according to activists who know him.

    The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently retired as the Trinity Church pastor, has been hit with a firestorm of criticism after news media outlets began airing video recordings of some of his fiery and racially charged sermons, including one in which he blamed U.S. foreign policy for the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

    In a speech in Philadelphia on Tuesday, Obama distanced himself from Wright’s strident political positions but refused to “disown” his pastor of nearly 20 years, reiterating his praise for Wright as his spiritual mentor.

    With Obama competing with rival presidential contender Hillary Clinton for gay votes in the upcoming Pennsylvania primary, revelations of Wright’s controversial sermons have raised questions among some activists about whether Obama’s longtime pastor was among the preachers who delivered fire-and-brimstone sermons attacking homosexuality.

    “Absolutely not,” said Rick Garcia, political director of Equality Illinois, the Chicago-based state gay rights group.

    Trinity has been among the strongest supporters of LGBT rights,” Garcia said. “I have the highest regard and admiration for Rev. Wright.”

    Gay Chicago resident Ronald Wadley, a member of Trinity United Church of Christ, said Wright enthusiastically backed suggestions by gay church members to create a gay and lesbian singles ministry as part of the church’s existing ministry to heterosexual singles.

    “We call it the same-gender loving family ministry,” Wadley said. “It’s a ministry that was formed to allow people to have an outlet to reconcile their sexuality with their spirituality,” he said.

    “He has always been supportive on gay issues,” Wadley said of Wright. “He has a stance that we all go by, under the credence of John: 16 — that we are all created by God.”

    ‘He stuck up for me’

    Bishop Kwabena Rainey Cheeks, pastor of Washington’s Inner Light Ministries, which has a mostly black gay congregation, said Wright has given him strong support and encouragement in Cheeks’ role as an openly gay minister in the 17 years that the two have known each other.

    “When I was on a panel with him at a religious conference [in Alabama], some ministers expressed anti-gay views,” Cheeks said. “He stuck up for me. He defended me and spoke out on my behalf.”

    Cheeks noted that Wright started one of Chicago’s first church-run AIDS ministries at Trinity and has boasted about having a sizable number of gays in his congregation.

    Tracy Baim, editor of Windy City Times, a gay newspaper in Chicago, said Wright has never carried any religious objections to same-sex marriage into the political sphere in Illinois, where the City of Chicago and the state legislature have passed far-reaching gay rights laws.

    “He has never been a barrier to gay rights at all,” Baim said.

    Baim said any hint that Obama’s support for gay rights has been curtailed because of his affiliation with Wright or Trinity Church would be completely false. She noted that Obama has been a strong supporter on gay issues since he first entered politics as a candidate for the Illinois State Senate.

    With the exception of same-sex marriage, which both Obama and Clinton have declined to support, Obama has backed virtually all other gay-related issues pushed by gay rights organizations, Baim said.

    She noted that both Obama and his wife, Michelle, have regularly attended gay community events in the state.

    “There’s been a great comfort level,” Baim said, that Barack and Michelle

    Obama have shown in their encounters with both gay men and lesbians.

    Ben LaBolt, a spokesperson for the Obama campaign, said Obama recognizes that Wright and Trinity Church have an inclusive policy toward gays and people with HIV.

    “Sen. Obama has made it clear that he views Rev. Wright as a religious adviser who introduced him to his Christian faith, not a political adviser,” LaBolt said.

    ‘Good News for Homosexuals’

    Cheeks, of D.C.’s Inner Light Ministries, said Wright has championed gay rights causes by speaking out on behalf of gays in religious forums for nearly two decades, a development that Cheeks said provides a counterbalance to claims by critics that Wright has delivered divisive sermons.

    In one of his sermons of the early 1990s, titled, “Good News for Homosexuals,” Wright told of how he believes God does not limit his love to heterosexuals.

    “I refuse to limit my God, to lock God into my cultural understandings because culture is fickle,” Wright said. “And culture is often wrong. Culture was wrong about slavery. Culture was wrong about women. Culture was wrong about Africans and Indians, and culture was wrong about Christ,” he said. “I have been the pariah among many of my clergy colleagues who somehow see me as defective or not quite saved because I won’t join them in their homophobic gay bashing and misquoting of scripture.
    Obama pastor backs gay rights - Washington Blade

  5. #45
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    to further clarify...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I said nothing about Easter. I just told the people who are "Conservative" (i.e. over the top religious) to get over themselves - they no longer have the right to ban certain people / families from the festivities that we celebrate in this nation.
    agreed
    Obama is trying to be open to all - I don't see a problem with that, and I don't see why conservatives should either, unless they're being bigots.
    agreed
    Most Christians aren't bigots, and I'm not saying most Conservatives are either.
    somewhat agree.

    However, for Christians, Easter is sometimes celebrated as the day that Jesus rose from the dead after his crucifixion. However, for the rest of us, and to be honest, most Christians as well, it's about finding pastel-colored eggs hidden by a giant bunny, and a lot of candy, and going to Church on Sunday since you hadn't been since last Easter.
    agreed, but don't forget about peeps! they're my favorite! <----


    So my main point was that people shouldn't have a problem with it. I don't like it when people discriminate against others based on sexuality, or on any other characteristic that others cannot or should not be forced to change. I'd love it if Obama invited Muslims and Jews to an event like this, to be honest. Easter, just like every other holiday that was originally Christian, no longer belongs to just the Christians.
    yup.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by professor goodstain View Post
    You stand corrected. Peguy is IN(F)J. What does sanity have to do with a homosexual Easter?
    The fact that he believes only orthodox religions are correct and have value, but other denominations shouldn't be recognized. That's serious lack of critical thinking. It's like telling someone the tooth fairy is definitely real, but not unicorns. Especially when Christianity expects people to believe very crazy ideas.



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    The fact that he believes only orthodox religions are correct and have value, but other denominations shouldn't be recognized. That's serious lack of critical thinking. It's like telling someone the tooth fairy is definitely real, but not unicorns.
    If what you're saying is true, then wtf is this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well again considering we're talking about a Christian holiday here, I think it's fair to say that Christians should have their way on this one. Just like Muslims should have their way concerning their holidays, Jews with theirs, pagans, and so on.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I don't know if I would go so far as to say Obama's church promoted gay rights. Reverend Wright has echoed AIDS conspiracy theories and praised Louis Farrakhan, who is a notorious anti-Semite and homophobe. He obviously doesn't speak for the entire congregation, but it's not nearly so cut-and-dried as you are suggesting.
    Farrakhan’s an asshole who could go far in the Taliban. He’s also a prime example of the double standard on the left against calling a minority person or group on the same bigotry they would be quick to condemn any white right-winger for. I would guess (and hope) that Obama privately views Frarrakhan and his minions as people he’s saddled with. For political reasons, Obama isn’t going to champion gay rights as aggresively as some people would like, but he’s clearly an improvement over the last administration.
    i believe that i am in hell, therefore i am there.
    –arthur rimbaud

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    If what you're saying is true, then wtf is this?
    Do you think orthodox only applies to Christianity? He recognizes the right of the most extreme (orthodox) sects of many different religions to practice how they like. He finds conservative and liberal interpretations of those same religions, to be heresy.

  10. #50
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    The fact that he believes only orthodox religions are correct and have value, but other denominations shouldn't be recognized. That's serious lack of critical thinking. It's like telling someone the tooth fairy is definitely real, but not unicorns.
    Did you pull that out of a cereal box or a fortune cookie? I guess it depends on which one you believe will be the right answer.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

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