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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    You are holding them responsible for the track their parents put them on as a child, I'd say any effort to go against that tide of influence is anything but lazy.
    When children become adults, they're responsible for their actions. It's a choice, to remain overweight. Thus, they're lazy to do anything less than improve their health.

  2. #82
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I mean, all I want is some orange juice and maybe a sandwich, but the lunchmeat's full of salt, the peanut-butter is full of fat, the bread is plain old carbohydrates, and the jam and orange juice are pure sugar.

    So... I don't know what to do. It's so confusing.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I mean, all I want is some orange juice and maybe a sandwich, but the lunchmeat's full of salt, the peanut-butter is full of fat, the bread is plain old carbohydrates, and the jam and orange juice are pure sugar.

    So... I don't know what to do. It's so confusing.
    Take your own lunch from home?

  4. #84
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Take your own lunch from home?
    but that's what I would want to bring!
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #85
    Member lexiphanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I mean, all I want is some orange juice and maybe a sandwich, but the lunchmeat's full of salt, the peanut-butter is full of fat, the bread is plain old carbohydrates, and the jam and orange juice are pure sugar.

    So... I don't know what to do. It's so confusing.
    Then drink some orange juice, and have a sandwich.

    When you have more control, then you can change things. Worry about what you can change.

  6. #86
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    How many legit studies have been done?

    I don't think it has anything to do with morals either.

    As someone else stated, it takes tax money to pay for welfare etc. On that level, it is public business. It could also be argued that allowing children to become obese is abuse. Which would be a child welfare issue. However, I don't think the government involving itself too much is the answer. People need to take care of themselves.
    I don't feel qualified to be answering this without sources in front of me. If you're genuinely interested I do recommend the Campos book - it's hardheaded and fair - he's not on a mission more than he is out to expose other people's missions. I have read a lot about this issue, though, and the general impression I get is that there have been a ton of studies of weight and how it affects health, but the results are often a lot more complex than either reported in the media or easily understood by non-scientists, and there are also complex reasons for spinning these results in a certain way, for certain bodies (governments, weight loss industry, insurance companies etc.)

    Also, re: children, see my previous posts - children are, imo, a special case and for the reasons you and others have been laying out - they're not responsible for their circumstances and adults are. Again leaving out any arguments re: health, a very fat kid is probably going to be a target of bullying and a victim social isolation, and no, it isn't fair for this to happen for reasons that are personally beyond the kid's control.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  7. #87
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    Please keep in mind, I asked you what you would do in the first half that post. If my fellow countrymen don't care about their own well being why would I?
    Of course they care, I don't see many people revelling in their excess weight, they may feel powerless but that doesn't mean they don't care.

    You keep talking about how people feel, but you're not offering solutions. Should we just pat them all on the back, tell em it's okay, and let it continue?
    Perhaps that's a good start, happy and self-confident people are much more likely to take better care of themselves. Perhaps a good start would be to start treating them as people, who might have made mistakes in life (like everyone) yet are still deserving of respect and understanding. Perhaps shift focus from weight, to things like fitness and overall health.

    Again, where does personal responsibility come into the equation? I'm really sorry that you find my response , but I've spent the past two decades raising my children to be active, healthy, productive citizens and I don't have a lot of sympathy for the people who choose to bring children into this world but aren't willing to take the time to do the same.
    I agree about the parents, yet the children themselves they aren't lazy if that's all that they've been brought up to know?

    I have parents who did not exercise and have had to deal with heart disease, cancer, and diabetes as a result. That's not a life I want for myself or my children and, for the record, my now breastless, diabetic mother will be the first one to tell you that she created the situation she's in and readily admits that it was her own laziness that cost her ten pounds of flesh and a year of her life to chemo.

    And now, I will take my old, but healthy ass, to the gym so as to minimize the possibility of meeting the same fate as my mother...
    I'm sorry to hear about your mother, people make mistakes and soetimes we can never know. My great grandfather lived to the ripe old age of 97 on a horrendous diet of meat and sugar.
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  8. #88
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    What you eat makes some difference, but people seriously over-estimate its importance. How much you eat is the most important factor in gaining weight. How much activity you do is the next most important thing. What you eat is a bit down there.

    I'm tired of people thinking that if they sit around gorging themselves on "health food" they'll lose weight. If you sit around, and gorge yourself, you will likely gain weight (you'd have to have some really weird, carb starved diet otherwise, like atkin's).

    So on the flip side, let's not try to blame this whole obesity wave on the quality of food. I'm not going to buy it. Now, I'm sure it's true that some people biologically have an easier time losing weight than others. Very true. But explain to me why this fat generating biology has sky-rocketed in the past two decades? What happened? Some extraordinarily dominant fat gene got propagated?
    Or is this epigenetic? Are fetuses being exposed to chemicals that make them have obese probable biology?

    That last thing suggested might actually be possible, but I'd like to see some evidence.
    Last edited by Magic Poriferan; 04-06-2009 at 11:11 PM. Reason: I can't write fast for shit.
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  9. #89
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    What you eat makes some difference, but people seriously over-estimate its importance. How much you eat is the most important factor in gaining weight. How much activity you do is the next most important thing. What you eat is a bit down there.

    I'm tired of people thinking that if they sit around gorging themselves on "health food" they'll lose weight. If you sit around, and gorge yourself, you will likely gain weight (you'd have to have some really weird, carb starved diet otherwise, like atkin's).
    I agree basically, but there is no denying that white flour/rice/potato bases are just about the most affordable, most abundant and easily stored food around. It's high GI, less filling than low GI food so you eat more of it.

    So on the flip side, let's not try to blame this whole obesity wave on the quality of food. I'm not going to buy it. Now, I'm sure it's true that some people biologically have an easier time losing weight than others. Very true. But explain to me why this fat generating biology has sky-rocketed in the past two decades? What happened? Some extraordinarily dominate fat gene got propagated?
    Or is this epigenetic? Are fetuses being exposed to chemicals that make them have obese probable biology?

    That last suggested might actually be possible, but I'd like to seem some evidence.
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  10. #90
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    It's easy to point fingers at obesity but there are many different things people struggle with. It would be easy to say that overweight people should control themselves but I'm sure I could find similar control issues that dont manifest themselves as weight in people who exercise or are naturally thin.

    It isn't bad to deal with things and promote healthy choices, it is bad to point fingers at people who have had to deal with issues in their lives.

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