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  1. #61
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    Tell me then, what is the basis for raising the cost of healthcare solely based on weight?
    Scientifically, I don't think there is a basis. Not a solid one, anyway. I'll leave out the slippery slope argument, although I could attempt to make it (i.e. there are many behaviours that can be/have been accused of being detrimental to health - if we raise healthcare costs for fatties, why not raise them for Type A stressballs, who are all giving themselves high blood pressure* etc. etc. etc.?). Insurance companies will always, if they can get away with it, try to lessen their own costs. It's not surprising they're using the current hysteria over obesity to do so, and I doubt it matters much to them whether the science behind the hysteria is solid or not.

    Uh, oops, I see a bunch of posts I didn't read. I'll read them now...
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    SO you went above and beyond what most people do, good for you, that doesn't make all the rest lazy.
    Obesity doesn't just happen. It's a very deliberate and conscious action that builds consistently, over a long period of time. That DOES make them lazy if they end up in that situation. There's no rule stating that overweight people can't stop overeating until they're medically obese.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Obesity doesn't just happen. It's a very deliberate and conscious action that builds consistently, over a long period of time. That DOES make them lazy if they end up in that situation. There's no rule stating that overweight people can't stop overeating until they're medically obese.
    So these kids are lazy? Once someone is one that track it is very to get off and societal pressure does nothing but perpetuate cycles of self hatred and overeating.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    So these kids are lazy? Once someone is one that track it is very to get off and societal pressure does nothing but perpetuate cycles of self hatred and overeating.
    You're actually going to address the OP now? As for actual toddlers, it's the parent's fault. They're abusing their children on a psychological, emotional, and physical level.

  5. #65
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    I.e., they are making a case for what type of body fat to look at when we want to characterize the relationship between insulin resistence and obesity.

    Thus statements such as this, in its presentation is misinforming and leads to false conclusions:
    * The German study found that insulin sensitivity was not statistically different in obese individuals compared with normal weight individuals.
    *metabolically benign obesity that is not accompanied by insulin resistance and early atherosclerosis exists in humans
    The study supports/proves the idea, on a basic level, that it is possible to be fat/obese *and* healthy. There is not a 100% direct causal link between obesity and ill health. It is more complex than being fat = ill health.

    Btw, 01011010, I generally agree with you that weight is a choice. The vast majority of fat people are fat because they've taken in more calories than they've burned off. And the vast majority of them would lose weight if they started expending more calroies than they took in. I guess my personal opinion is that it's not a moral choice. It's just a physical choice. Do I want to look good in my $300 jeans or do I want to look like a wobbly whale in my muumuu? I know what I'd choose. But I also know I've got no say in the choices other people make, and I do completely reject the idea that weight is a sign of personal morality - that somehow a thin person is a 'better' person than a fat person. It doesn't bother me at all to see a fat person eating Doritos - why would it?

    There's just something that gets up my nose about judging other people based on their personal habits - smoking, eating, promiscuous sex etc. Something weird and judgy and puritanical. Have at it, I say. Smoke a pack a day if you want. Down that Haagen Daaz in one sitting. It's your life.

    EDIT: My opinions on extremely obese toddlers/small children are not necessarily reflected above. Children cannot make their own choices and I do believe it's wrong for a parent to make a possibly lifelong lifestyle choice for a toddler. Being obese, regardless of the debate over how unhealthy it is, can't be a fun existence.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    So these kids are lazy? Once someone is one that track it is very to get off and societal pressure does nothing but perpetuate cycles of self hatred and overeating.
    Umm, yeah... they are. The fact that their parents encouraged and supported the behavior doesn't change it's reality. What should society, the very society that gets stuck with the bill btw, do? Do we all just sit back and let it happen, telling ourselves that it's our fault that these people have gotten into this condition? It's all well and good to point the finger at "society" but at what point does personal accountability/choice come into the equation? Are we really so completely vulnerable to external influence? This whole business is starting to reek terribly of determinism and, if it is all predetermined, then why should I waste my time and energy trying to "understand" the state these people are in?

    Btw, I don't actually care what fat adults do, but I really don't want to get saddled with the burden...as a tax payer...of the aftermath of their decisions. Billions are spent each year on health care for these people and an awful lot of it is coming from the government to which we pay our taxes. I also don't think it's terribly fair to do this to children. Would we be so glib if it were alcohol, drugs, or tobacco these individuals were feeding their children?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    You're actually going to address the OP now? As for actual toddlers, it's the parent's fault. They're abusing their children on a psychological, emotional, and physical level.
    Well how can you seperate the adult obese from the obese children? They are one in the same, those children are going to be the ones you're rallying against and calling lazy when they grow up.
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  8. #68
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    There's the whole issue of processed (also more fattening) foods being less expensive and more readily available. It's a complex issue.

    Look at the typical school lunch.

    As a side question: Do junior high and high schools still have drink and snack machines?

  9. #69
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    Well how can you seperate the adult obese from the obese children?
    I don't think children can be held responsible for choices they don't have the knowledge or experience to make.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Well how can you seperate the adult obese from the obese children? They are one in the same, those children are going to be the ones you're rallying against and calling lazy when they grow up.
    Logical fallacy.

    Babies and toddlers are dependent on their parents for food and guidance. For obvious reasons, adults are responsible for themselves and all their actions.

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