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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    High fat, high carb food is cheap, abundant and convenient. Time to spend exercising and feeding kids is scarce outside of work. Simple really.

    Funny to see the intuitives here pointing the finger at the individual parents, rather than seeing it as a macro (economic and social) issue.
    Even with lower quality food, do they really need to overeat to the extent of becoming medically obese?

    Everyone has direct power over what they put in their mouth and how much. Society isn't forcing anyone to be fat and lazy. It's their CHOICE, to dig their own graves with a fork. Kids however, have to do what their parents instruct them to do. It's practically abuse to allow a child to get that large.

  2. #22
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    For reference: the first book I read on this subject - The Obesity Myth, by Paul Campos, is what started me down the road to ultimately deciding being fat isn't that big of a deal for the vast majority of fat people. Here is an article by Paul Campos talking about the main issues covered in the book that gives a succinct summary of it, imo: The Obesity Myth | spiked

    The facts of the matter are:

    * The health risks associated with increasing weight are generally small, in comparison to those associated with, for example, being a man, or poor, or African American.

    * These risks tend to disappear altogether when factors other than weight are taken into account. For instance, fat active people have half the mortality rate of thin sedentary people, and the same mortality rate as thin active people.

    * There is no good evidence that significant long-term weight loss is beneficial to health, and a great deal of evidence that short-term weight loss followed by weight regain (the pattern followed by almost all dieters) is medically harmful. Indeed, frequent dieting is perhaps the single best predictor of future weight gain.

    * Despite a century-long search for a ‘cure’ for ‘overweight’, we still have no idea how to make fat people thin. The war on fat has reached the point where systematic distortion of the evidence has become the norm, rather than the exception. The basic strategies employed by those who profit from this war are to treat the most extreme cases as typical, to ignore all contrary data, and to recommend ‘solutions’ that actually cause the problems they supposedly address.
    Oh and another one, from the same site, different authors: It’s official: you can be fat and fit | spiked

    The German study found that insulin sensitivity was not statistically different in obese individuals compared with normal weight individuals. In effect, the image of hordes of fatties with metabolic problems leading to high levels of heart disease and diabetes is a myth. As the German research team put it, a ‘metabolically benign obesity that is not accompanied by insulin resistance and early atherosclerosis exists in humans’ (3). This is indeed unwelcome news to the obesity crusaders, for it shows just how scientifically unjustified their claims are, how generally untruthful the government’s claims about the dangers of being overweight are, how compromised is their health advice about overweight and obesity, and how unwarranted are the calls for draconian government interventions such as tobacco-like warnings on so-called unhealthy foods. As MaryFran Sowers, one of the co-authors of the US study, told the New York Times: ‘We use “overweight” almost indiscriminately sometimes. But there is lots of individual variation within that, and we need to be cognizant of that as we think about what our health messages should be.’ (4)

    Of course, none of this should come as a surprise since there is considerable evidence that ‘fat-and-fit’ is not an oxymoron. For instance, last December the Journal of the American Medical Association published a study which followed 2,600 American adults aged over 60 for 12 years. Two striking findings emerged from the study. First, as in other studies, the overweight - that is those with a body mass index (BMI) of 25 to 30 - had slightly lower death rates than those of ‘normal’ weight. Second, levels of fitness, not BMI, was the most reliable predictor of death. Those with the lowest levels of fitness were significantly more likely to die, regardless of body weight.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

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  3. #23
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    There was an era not too long ago that had more chores to do. Some of those chores involved walking to the place where the chow was sold. And also the chores that were replaced by gadgets.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I see the overweight adults. And I see it more at the elementary schools. But I haven't seen it in the preschool aged children.
    http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/160/6/578.pdf

    Prevalence of overweight and obesity in American Indian school children and adolescents in the Aberdeen area: A population study
    (And check out many articles in the International Journal of Obesity)

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18089263?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez. Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.P ubmed_Discovery_PMC&linkpos=1&log$=citedinpmcartic les&logdbfrom=pubmed

    From JAMA:
    JAMA -- Abstract: Prevalence of Overweight and Obesity Among US Children, Adolescents, and Adults, 1999-2002, June 16, 2004, Hedley et al. 291 (23): 2847

    ...and you can check their reference, or citations at the end fo the articles, to get EVEN MORE studies that have looked into this 'crap' phenomenon.

  5. #25
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Sorry to offend you with my opinion, qre. I reserve my right to disagree with a study. They are not flawless. I stated what I have seen.

    Also, I have no opinion on native american preschool obesity levels.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Sorry to offend you with my opinion, qre. I reserve my right to disagree with a study. They are not flawless. I stated what I have seen.
    Difference between A study, and a host of studies. There's also something called meta-analysis that pools studies together, to give it more statistical power when interpreting results. And, rigors of peer-review of indexed journals which enable us to take these research/studies more seriously than opinion pieces of pop culture pundits/editors/gurus.

    I'm not offended (I thrive on dialogue, actually), I'm just evening the playing field of what we're accepting as plausible evidence and the criticism of these evidence therein. Excuse my seeming harshness in online format (you're not the first to notice this ), when I talk/type fast, I'm simply focused on taking a point [I don't even really check who is talking/who I'm responding to - just the words], and I don't usually gloss my words well.

  7. #27
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    I live in Arizona. Scientists from Japan and many other parts of the world have come here, to study the obesity epidemic amongst the Indians. It's real, whether you want to ignore the empirical evidence or not.

    For the record, I think obesity is less prevalent in the upper and middle class. Nonetheless, it doesn't stop the numbers from growing across all the demographics, every year.

  8. #28
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Even with lower quality food, do they really need to overeat to the extent of becoming medically obese?

    Everyone has direct power over what they put in their mouth and how much. Society isn't forcing anyone to be fat and lazy. It's their CHOICE, to dig their own graves with a fork. Kids however, have to do what their parents instruct them to do. It's practically abuse to allow a child to get that large.
    It's basically a form of malnourishment, I'm assuming it's the high fat/carb content of the food combined with lack of exercise rather than it being based purely on amount. A lot of those parents probably make the choice to feed there kids something, if they weren't able to feed them the cheap fatty food, the alternative is expensive health foods or going without. Combine that with a lack of education with these parents (if academics can't agree how to lose weight then the parents are sure to have no clue either) and it almost seems unavoidable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    For reference: the first book I read on this subject - The Obesity Myth, by Paul Campos, is what started me down the road to ultimately deciding being fat isn't that big of a deal for the vast majority of fat people. Here is an article by Paul Campos talking about the main issues covered in the book that gives a succinct summary of it, imo: The Obesity Myth | spiked
    Excellent points Kangirl, it definitely makes me wonder how much worse the psychological damage of being told from childhood on that they're is something severely wrong with themselves, that they're disgusting, hideous and lazy. Compared to this the physiological damage of being fat seems paltry.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member dga's Avatar
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    Areas more heavily populated than cleveland might have higher rates for whatever reason, bring up the average to a level that those in cleveland would not notice, or something.


    I think the problem is 2 fold - suburban lifestyles and shit food. video games, cable, and internet mixed with impersonal neighborhoods discouraging playing outside make sedentary time easier. To be fair, there are fat people in cities too for the same reasons, but there is somethign odd about having to drive to get to a suitable palyground or park.

    King Corn is an interesting documentary that covers industrial corn production. The inedible, genetically modified product from midwestern farms is the base feed for much livestock and processed derivatives make their way to just about all packaged foods in the US. Mexican coca cola uses real sugar, american counterpart uses corn syrup. Cornsyrup is added to bread and hotdogs and reading the the ingredients of foods ones would think would be devoid of corn produces shocking results. Since about 30 years, the american populace has steadily been eating more and more garbage food, whether out of ignorance, laziness, or not able to afford a diet that is not dominated by idustrial corn byproduct.

    In smug europe, industrial corn is not used as much. That is not to say that potential diets here are any better, but the big difference is industrial corn.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    This appears, from my experience, an unpopular and often disagreed with opinion, but I don't believe there is an 'obesity crisis'. To be more specific, I think the health risks of obesity have been wildly exaggerated.
    Let's say that's true. Tell me then, what is the basis for raising the cost of healthcare solely based on weight? Or more extreme consequences like getting fired in Japan. Those actions don't really fit with the theory that fat, healthy people are genuinely the majority.


    FOXNews.com - Alabama Plans to Tax Fat Employees to Recoup Insurance Costs - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

    Japan's Bulging Waistlines Trigger Flab Tests in Land of Sumo - Bloomberg.com

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