User Tag List

First 142223242526 Last

Results 231 to 240 of 260

  1. #231
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Does it? Meta-studies show that the link is primarily bad nutrition + lack of exercise = heavier + unhealthy. I get to say it... correlation is not causation!

    (Disclaimer - it can get technical in here, differentiating weight/fat/cholesterol/etc... and I'm not an expert in this area by any means. It's what I gathered from a high-level view of metastudies.)
    Obesity and mortality: a review of the epidemiolog...[Am J Clin Nutr. 1997] - PubMed Result

    There's an example of a study where obesity and increased mortality are linked directly enough to be considered causation. More studies I've just googled speak of a direct link between obesity and certain diseases. Obesity != overweight, for the record.

    It's quite intuitive really. More cells are needed to maintain a larger body, each cell has a set chance of becoming cancerous, larger body, more chance of cancer. There are more factors involved, that's just an obvious extrapolation.

    Heart disease is another one. Heart size is linked to height and frame, as well as other set genes, it can only increase in size naturally due to fat. The harder the heart has to work, the more chance of heart failure occurring. The larger the body, the harder the heart must work, larger body=more chance of heart failure.

    Stress levels are quite obvious too. Cholesterol and insulin levels are both strongly linked as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Perhaps this is a battle of Te vs Fi, where you guys see numbers and inefficiencies, I see individual human beings, I feel their pain, I see how hard life is for them, I can forgive their mistakes without excusing them. You guys on the other hand seem driven to label them, put them in a box and reduce a complex issue into it's barest simplicities. When you do this I feel you don't do justice to these people as individuals and the exceptions to your labels and generalities like Jeremy still get lumped together with the truly lazy freeloaders.
    So, does me mentioning I'm INFP help destroy this theory? Here's my attempt at an Fi response. I'm not used to using it in a debate.

    I'm like you, except more extreme probably. I don't think murderers should be blamed for killing people. Honestly. No-one has free will, why blame them for their environment? Why blame the environment for the environment? They should still be stopped, however. The same way obese people should be encouraged and helped to loose weight, if they choose to. How do we start that? By blaming them of course!

    I know a few obese people, one who is very obese, he eats barely anything, and when he does it's take aways and the like. He drink lots of alcohol however, and he doesn't exercise. That is why he is obese. Yes, it's his environment that caused it, the same environment that drives people to do all sorts of crazy things they get blamed for. Why is obesity any different?

    You can split obese people into two categories. Those who want to be obese or do not care. (In which case, great! Go for it!) And those who don't want to be obese. Those who don't want to be need to take responsibility for their situation. It may be unfair, but so is paying to repair something that only broke because you happened to be the 4567th person to use it, or having to pay extra money to live because you have cystic fibrosis, or having to get insurance again because your house happened to be robbed. You can blame whatever you want for it, but in the end the only person who can do something about it is you.

    Okay, we could force people to loose weight, but who wants to do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    Anyone? Anyone? Honestly, I would love to hear thoughts on these (my thoughts)...
    How about aiming to reduce obesity, instead of aiming to not support them? Applies to all the examples. It's what's occurring right now as well.

  2. #232
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    Who is assuming now?

    I actually wasn't referring to you. I stated I was done with you on that matter, because you're irrational.
    Well no one else even came close to stating that in this thread.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  3. #233
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INxJ
    Posts
    3,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Well no one else even came close to stating that in this thread.
    Since you need everything spelled out for you, it makes sense that you missed the others.

  4. #234
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    My original quote:

    "Why don't you take a look at the DSM-IV, the silly little book used by actual clinicians in the field? "Feeling blue" has been a long-standing part of the language for practitioners, sometimes it's replaced by "sad" or "down", and two weeks is standard for a preliminary diagnosis." (highlighted with the key points, just for you)

    Now, if you feel you must go off on ridiculous tangents, at least try to get your facts straight. I said two weeks and that was correct. You do not have access to the forms that the psychiatrists and psychologists read from when they meet with their patients. If you did, you would see the language used in interviews is consistent with what I've said.

    Back to the subject at hand. There's a problem. Some of us will work on solutions (such as education, involvement in the lives and activities of those who wish to change the situation, setting of examples, etc.), others will sit by and cry about the travesty of the stigma attached to obesity. I would like to align myself with the first group. You feel free to stay right where you are in group number two.
    __________________

  5. #235
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    Anyone? Anyone? Honestly, I would love to hear thoughts on these (my thoughts)...
    I agree with you...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #236
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    So, does me mentioning I'm INFP help destroy this theory?

    I'm like you, except more extreme probably. I don't think murderers should be blamed for killing people. Honestly. No-one has free will, why blame them for their environment? Why blame the environment for the environment? They should still be stopped, however. The same way obese people should be encouraged and helped to loose weight, if they choose to. How do we start that? By blaming them of course!
    Where have I ever said that people shouldn't be encouraged and helped to lose weight? What does pointing the finger really achieve? Anyway we are only pointing the finger because their weakness is so obvious. If we are going to start getting hard on unhealthy people then we are dealing with a lot more people than just the obese.


    I know a few obese people, one who is very obese, he eats barely anything, and when he does it's take aways and the like. He drink lots of alcohol however, and he doesn't exercise. That is why he is obese. Yes, it's his environment that caused it, the same environment that drives people to do all sorts of crazy things they get blamed for. Why is obesity any different?
    Does laying blame produced practical results in a holistic way? If so then I'm all for it.

    You can split obese people into two categories. Those who want to be obese or do not care. (In which case, great! Go for it!) And those who don't want to be obese. Those who don't want to be need to take responsibility for their situation. It may be unfair, but so is paying to repair something that only broke because you happened to be the 4567th person to use it, or having to pay extra money to live because you have cystic fibrosis, or having to get insurance again because your house happened to be robbed. You can blame whatever you want for it, but in the end the only person who can do something about it is you.
    No arguements here, but how do you solve the overall issue? How do you spark all the individuals into action? Destroying self-esteem is probably not a good way to start.

    How about aiming to reduce obesity, instead of aiming to not support them? Applies to all the examples.
    How about aiming to improve overall health?
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  7. #237
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    My original quote:

    "Why don't you take a look at the DSM-IV, the silly little book used by actual clinicians in the field? "Feeling blue" has been a long-standing part of the language for practitioners, sometimes it's replaced by "sad" or "down", and two weeks is standard for a preliminary diagnosis." (highlighted with the key points, just for you)

    Now, if you feel you must go off on ridiculous tangents, at least try to get your facts straight. I said two weeks and that was correct. You do not have access to the forms that the psychiatrists and psychologists read from when they meet with their patients. If you did, you would see the language used in interviews is consistent with what I've said.
    There is more to clinical depression than just feeling blue for two weeks. Agree/disagree?

    If you agree then we are on the same page.

    Back to the subject at hand. There's a problem. Some of us will work on solutions (such as education, involvement in the lives and activities of those who wish to change the situation, setting of examples, etc.), others will sit by and cry about the travesty of the stigma attached to obesity. I would like to align myself with the first group. You feel free to stay right where you are in group number two.
    __________________
    So you don't think the stigma could contribute to serious psychological blocks?
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  8. #238
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    1,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Where have I ever said that people shouldn't be encouraged and helped to lose weight? What does pointing the finger really achieve? Anyway we are only pointing the finger because their weakness is so obvious. If we are going to start getting hard on unhealthy people then we are dealing with a lot more people than just the obese.
    We are. But helping the obese is a good start. It's pointless saying it is unfair because other unhealthy people aren't getting the same treatment. If we are targetting a specific group of unhealthy people, we are still targeting unhealthy people.

    Mostly, targeting obese people will target most other unhealthy dieting going on anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Does laying blame produced practical results in a holistic way? If so then I'm all for it.
    Yes. Of course it does. What do we blame for global warming? Find whatever it is and stop it.

    There's a causal chain that made obese people obese. Many things are on the chain, one of which is the person themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    No arguements here, but how do you solve the overall issue? How do you spark all the individuals into action? Destroying self-esteem is probably not a good way to start.
    Insulting or needlessly discriminating against obese people is usually unnecessary. The odd insult however, as harsh as it may seem, normally encourages obese people to change lifestyles.

    It worked on me, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    How about aiming to improve overall health?
    Obviously, that would be great. Better than targeting obesity alone. The way trends are going it won't be too long until that is the goal.

    I'm not encouraging 'fat-hate', it's silly. I am encouraging placing the blame for a person's obesity on the choices they make. Choices made normally means the person themselves by most standards.

  9. #239
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I breastfed my four kids, btw. It is possible to be a healthy chunky baby.
    It absolutely is. Mine were both on the small side but a friend of mine (who, by the way, is a 100-lb vegetarian) apparently put out melted butter. Her babies got BIG in the first six or eight months when they were on 100% breastmilk, but leaned out when they started crawling and are now totally normal sized elementary-aged children. That's a very common pattern for breastfed babies. They don't ALL do that, but many do, so just because juggernaut's kids didn't grow in that pattern doesn't make it abnormal or the result of a bad diet. The macronutrient ratio of breastmilk is pretty much static-- it doesn't change based on the mother's diet unless she is severely undernourished.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #240
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    Booo
    Posts
    3,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    We are. But helping the obese is a good start. It's pointless saying it is unfair because other unhealthy people aren't getting the same treatment. If we are targetting a specific group of unhealthy people, we are still targeting unhealthy people.

    Mostly, targeting obese people will target most other unhealthy dieting going on anyway.
    I'm fine with that as long as it is helping and not just hysterical wailing.



    Yes. Of course it does. What do we blame for global warming? Find whatever it is and stop it.

    There's a causal chain that made obese people obese. Many things are on the chain, one of which is the person themselves.
    How does this work in practise? Boot camps?


    Insulting or needlessly discriminating against obese people is usually unnecessary. The odd insult however, as harsh as it may seem, normally encourages obese people to change lifestyles.

    It worked on me, anyway.
    That would be fine if "the odd insult" was all people were getting. Anything that makes that person feel like the goal is even more hopeless is not helping if you ask me.



    Obviously, that would be great. Better than targeting obesity alone. The way trends are going it won't be too long until that is the goal.

    I'm not encouraging 'fat-hate', it's silly. I am encouraging placing the blame for a person's obesity on the choices they make. Choices made normally means the person themselves by most standards.
    But isn't it useful to explore why they make those choices? To say it's just laziness is too simplistic in my view, there has to be much more to it.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

Similar Threads

  1. 13,000-Year-Old Satellite In Polar Orbit
    By Mal12345 in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 08-10-2013, 10:42 AM
  2. How many 5 year old could you take in a fight?
    By swordpath in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 06-11-2009, 09:43 AM
  3. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 12-14-2007, 03:50 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO