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  1. #191
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    If you spend enough time in your car, eventually something bad is going to happen. Just as if you eat enough food, eventually something bad will happen. People know the risks when they step into a car, but time and time again they ignore the risk of having a crash, should those people be villified for their mistakes just like the obese? Or should they be educated about driver safety and taking all precautions?


    I am not excusing obesity, obesity is a problem to be solved. All I've ever said is that hysteria and finger pointing doesn't solve the problem. I don't support obesity and I don't support hysteria or finger pointing either.
    Your comparison would work much better if you compared Obesity to speeding. Reckless driving outside of the recommended and necessary habits increases your risk for accidents and injury, just as consuming food in a way that is outside recommended and necessary portions/ingredients increases health risks and such. Both comparisons have an element of personal responsibility, regulation, and restraint attached, while your original did not.

    If obesity is a problem to be solved, then it helps to point at a cause of the problem. The study indicates children are being subjected to lifestyle choices that lead to increasing amounts of them being obese, which is unhealthy. Children at 4 or 5 years old aren't in a position to take the steps required to solve the problem themselves, but the parents are, and failure to do so should honestly be considered neglect. While there are people like Jeremy who have actual diseases and will battle them for the rest of their lives, how many cases can be changed by lifestyle changes? I'd argue a lot, based on the evidence Binary Numbers has displayed thus far.



  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    So when someone hits clinical obesity then they are lazy? They weren't lazy on the way there?
    Of course they were lazy on the way, but I don't actually care about that. It's totally irrelevant in fact. People are lazy in all kinds of different ways and as long as it doesn't effect others, I really couldn't give a hoot less. I don't have a great deal of patience with laziness from myself or those closest to me, but what other people do is of no concern to me.... again, provided they're not dragging others down (such as their children or fellow tax-paying citizens).

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    If you're someone that's poor to the point of having little to no money to spend on food, you are not going to just eat "half a burger" to avoid being fat. These people don't have the time to focus on losing weight - that's the problem. People who are in the lowest social strata of our society are the ones who work full time at a grocery store and part time at another job and have a large family that they're trying to feed. Do you really think they're worried about their weight? They can't be - they don't have time to be.

    You might retort along the lines of "Well they should make time" or something to that effect, but you don't know what many of these people go through each and every day just to make it by. At the end of the day, if they go to a restaurant to eat a hamburger, they're not thinking "Well, I need to watch what I'm eating..." They don't have that luxury; they're worried about how they're going to pay for their rent and electricity even though their spouse just lost their job. And the hamburger becomes a momentary relief from the tensions that life brings to the table every day in their lives. If they had the money, they would have time to sit back and reflect on how eating a hamburger might not be the best option, and they should opt for the $4 salad over the $1 double cheeseburger.
    Considering it takes less time to eat smaller size meals, that would seem most convenient for these very busy people.


    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    I don't have a great deal of patience with laziness from myself or those closest to me, but what other people do is of no concern to me.... again, provided they're not dragging others down (such as their children or fellow tax-paying citizens).
    Yes.

    I don't know if it has to do with Te, but I can't stand inefficiency and excess. I have difficulty understanding the emotional issues behind this, since everyone is usually majorly depressed at least once in their lives. I don't think it's a good excuse. Yet, like you, I don't care what they do when they aren't directly affecting me. Or abusing children.

  4. #194
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Sorry, I probably veered it off to the side too. My main point is that people need to realize that there is no one cause for childhood obesity. People often point towards the parents or to individual laziness, but factors can and are at work here that, when combined with the food and lifestyle of the modern day, make it incredibly hard for some to avoid obesity in childhood.
    What you have proven with your posts is not that obsesity can be excused. You have proven is that entire system has a fatal flaw.


    Our real problem is that laws of modern society are formed in a way that they ignore the fact that there are laws of chemistry and biology

    What is a byproduct of the fact that the politics is relativistic in nature. Which means that everything is negotiationable towards this approach to life.
    But that simply isn't the truth.

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'm perhaps mistaken but it seemed to me the discussion had expanded in several directions away from obese children. Sorry if you found my post irrelevant.
    I certainly don't think your post was irrelevant. My point was that compassion should be reserved for the victims, the children. If others wish to direct their empathy toward the people you were referring to, that's great.

  6. #196
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I agree that it's negligent to let an infant or child get so overweight. It's hard to make excuses for that, since adults control their food consumption entirely.

    On the other hand ... I have a fat cat. I decreased her food intake twice, two increments, and it made no difference in her weight. It did make her very unhappy. She'd start crying for food at about 5 pm when she had already eaten her allowance for the day.

    I said to hell with it and just keep her food bowl full. She eats what she wants and it's no longer an issue. Her weight has not varied.

    How do you figure that?

  7. #197
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I wish my life was so easy that I didn't need to have compassion on people.

    I don't know that I agree with the "poor people eat unhealthy so they get fat"

    Eat less, exercise is right. I just know as I get older it gets more difficult, and I tend to think curvy on people over 30 looks more natural anyway.

    I breastfed my four kids, btw. It is possible to be a healthy chunky baby.

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Well that goes against everything I've heard about the treatment of depression, you're a psychologist? Interesting...

    ...and no, not everyone get's truly depressed, sad maybe, not depressed, now THAT is a ridiculous claim.




    I must have missed the solutions, it would be good of you to summarise the solutions from your side of the argument?

    It's not one person influencing another, it is the combined influence of society, every rude or disapproving look or comment, every fat joke, every weightloss ad showing people with perfect bodies, every time they overhear someone mention how wonderfully "slim" a star has become or how sad it is that they've "let themselves go", for the truly overweight to see such small changes made a big deal they see their own situation as hopeless, I could go on and on. All of these things, overtime only manage to make that person feel even more hopeless.

    Give these people hope, encouragement, inspire them, focus on holistic health, not just "fat".
    Less food, more activity. Get it? got it? goooood. The rest of it falls into place once these first two steps are taken. It really is that simple. Trust me, I've seen it hundreds of times. As far as my background goes, it's more than adequate to support the claims I've made (both educationally and vocationally). You want to inspire people, make things easy to understand and be honest with them. Nobody feels good when they've got some Pollyanna bullshitting them how great they are, especially when they're perfectly aware that things aren't great at all. It's patronizing and obnoxious.

    If you've not been depressed yet, good for you. Live long enough and it will happen. When your parent/spouse/child dies or you lose an important job/ability/source of pleasure you will "feel blue for a period longer than two weeks".

  9. #199
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    There is some correlation between weight, education, and income:
    Google Answers: Rich,smart and overweight?

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Eat less, exercise is right. I just know as I get older it gets more difficult, and I tend to think curvy on people over 30 looks more natural anyway.
    What you fail to acknowledge, is that people are very concerned about the children that have no control over their situation.

    There are 80 year old body builders. 50+ year old marathoners. It's a choice to become less active with age. It's a choice to eat more. It takes more time to chew and swallow. It takes more time to digest. If time is really such an issue, eating less is actually a very practical solution that takes care of a few objectives at once.

    That statement about age, is the very same mentality with many overweight people. It's not your fault. The body is at fault, or society, or time constraints, or the man on the moon. Not you. Never you.

    There's a serious issue with lack of responsibility that is pervasive in American culture.

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