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  1. #171
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    Often times "get over it" is precisely what is called for, even with depression. We have become a nation of soft, self-indulgent babies, spoiled by greed and gluttony. If a person is truly depressed, as most of have been as some point in our lives, it should behoove her to figure out why she's depressed and make the changes necessary to change that state of mind. What she doesn't need is a pat on the head and cookie.
    Well that goes against everything I've heard about the treatment of depression, you're a psychologist? Interesting...

    ...and no, not everyone get's truly depressed, sad maybe, not depressed, now THAT is a ridiculous claim.


    Okay, now you're just being obtuse. There have been a number of recommendations/suggested throughout this thread. Not agreeing about their efficacy doesn't mean they haven't been made. Health conscious people don't make the obese obese, the obese make themselves and their children obese. I have never, in all the years I trained both the very fat and the very fit, seen a fit person force another fit (or unfit) person into the kind of condition that the people we're discussing are in. That is a patently ridiculous claim.
    I must have missed the solutions, it would be good of you to summarise the solutions from your side of the argument?

    It's not one person influencing another, it is the combined influence of society, every rude or disapproving look or comment, every fat joke, every weightloss ad showing people with perfect bodies, every time they overhear someone mention how wonderfully "slim" a star has become or how sad it is that they've "let themselves go", for the truly overweight to see such small changes made a big deal they see their own situation as hopeless, I could go on and on. All of these things, overtime only manage to make that person feel even more hopeless.

    Give these people hope, encouragement, inspire them, focus on holistic health, not just "fat".
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  2. #172
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juggernaut View Post
    What about compassion for the children?

    If you're healthy enough to carry a fetus to term and deliver it, you're healthy enough to walk around the block. Anyone in the condition you're describing should not be having or raising children.
    Who said they were? I wasn't talking about children.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    You're assuming that all fat people are otherwise healthy. What if you have, for example, arthritis in your spine, knees, and feet, which is very painful, and makes even standing up, much less walking, shrieking agony. Because it's difficult to exercise, you begin to gain weight. Then people assume you don't go up and down the stairs instead of taking the elevator because you're lazy -- obvious, because you're overweight. You see how this goes 'round and 'round.
    Your claiming the obesity 'epidemic' is because of arthritis and similar ailments?

    Obesity has spiked in the past 30 years. Genetics have not changed much, disease rates haven't either. It is obviously due to lifestyle changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It's easy to say "just exercise," but some people really can't just go walk. It's easy to say "just eat better," but groceries are not readily available in many areas. If you had to take a bus ride for an hour to get to a grocery store just to haul back one or two bags of groceries, would you do it several times a week, or would you just go to McDonald's.

    I'm not saying it's humanly impossible in such cases, but it's monstrous inconvenient and more difficult than many would be able to do, to keep in shape, in just those two circumstances. I'm sure there are other such circumstances.

    Be compassionate...
    The question in that situation is, why are people becoming lazier to the point they won't walk to the grocery store anymore? (Note: That's not a claim that obese people are lazy)

    When we find the answer, is there any worthwhile prevention?

    I think it's things like ease of transport. Things like ordering food online, takeaways, cars. More disposable income for food and alcohol, tastier foods etc.

    All those causes seem more positive than obesity is negative, so a better prevention would be education on diet and exercise, as I said earlier. That way we don't have to limit people's freedom if we want to reduce unhealthy lifestyles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Driving a car also causes increased health risks, yet I don't see the same hysteria in regards to car drivers.

    Disability support for those injured in car accidents? Never! They have consistently risked their health by getting out onto the roads, it's their own damn fault.
    As I said, no-one wants to eradicate things like online shopping, which may cause some obesity, since things like that are positive. The freedom to be obese greatly outweighs the benefit of forcing someone to loose body fat by taking away such freedoms. Other solutions are needed.

    With cars, the benefits outweigh the costs. More lives are saved/improved overall.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It's easy to say "just exercise," but some people really can't just go walk. It's easy to say "just eat better," but groceries are not readily available in many areas. If you had to take a bus ride for an hour to get to a grocery store just to haul back one or two bags of groceries, would you do it several times a week, or would you just go to McDonald's.
    McDonald's sells fruit and vegetable sides. Even salads. If someone can't afford that, surely they can eat only half of their value menu burger. Or is eating less of what's available not an actual option?

  5. #175
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    It wasn't bad parenting, at least in my opinion. It was partially overconsumption of food, I'll admit to that - I ate more than a lot of people did, but not so much more that I should have gained 40 pounds a year.

    Here's my story. I weighed a relatively normal weight at age 8. By age 10, I was a very heavy kid - about 20 pounds overweight. By age 14, I weighed 200 pounds. I don't know if you can imagine what it's like being a 14 year old kid who weighed 200 pounds. Talk about getting picked last for gym. And at that point, I didn't know what was wrong with me. I ate school lunch, just like everyone else. I got as much exercise as the rest of the class. Already an introvert, and somewhat shy at that point, I withdrew from my peers, who on the surface were nice to me, but were full of vile hate instilled in them by society underneath.

    By the age of 16, I weighed 290 pounds; I weigh 300 today, at age 21. Coinciding with this story, at the age of 13, I was diagnosed with hypothyroid disease. At the age of 16, they found the correct dose of medication for my case. I don't think it's a coincidence that my weight gain almost ceased after my medication had been fixed to that degree; my metabolism was finally catching up to the rest of my body. The onset of puberty was delayed significantly due to the fact that I had undiagnosed thyroid disease.

    People often underestimate just how hard it is to lose weight for me. They shrug me off, give me looks in the street, and kill my self-esteem. I've considered bariatric surgery to starve the weight off of my body, and still am at this point. I don't think it's normal for someone at my age to have to consider that course of action, but it reality for me. Before you start casting judgements against others for their supposed "laziness" or "lack of control", think. Do you REALLY think that all of it is just bad parenting or lack of control on the behalf of the person? There's got to be something causing this; for me, it was thyroid disease, at least partially, but even that doesn't fully explain it. I'm one of those conspiracy theorists that thinks that the food companies are in on this, but hey, I'm a fat guy, so obviously my opinion on that matter is moot. I'm just making an excuse for my poor behaviors and laziness, right?

    Either way, people still stare at me as I walk down the street. People laugh when I exercise in the gym. People grimace as I try to shove myself into a school desk made for a 150-pound body. Girls think I'm pathetic. A good friend, but never someone who'd they'd want to date. And every day, I wonder why this is happening to me. Why can't I be stronger? Why can't I stop this? And it drives me insane, trying to know why my life is such a hell when everyone else around me gets to be "normal".

    I'm not asking for "FAT ACCEPTANCE" or whatever the hell people call it. If you just want to think I'm fat because I'm lazy and refuse to try to eat right, go right ahead. But I'm tired of my life being a hell for factors that, at least in my view, are beyond my control. But society sucks, and I doubt that anyone will ever change that.
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

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  6. #176
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    We're talking about clinical obesity, not being "overweight" or having a little extra junk in the trunk.

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Who said they were? I wasn't talking about children.
    See the original post. No one is terribly interested in or concerned with individual adults who are not a drain on society and not rearing children. What they do to themselves is their bag.

  8. #178
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    McDonald's sells fruit and vegetable sides. Even salads. If someone can't afford that, surely they can eat only half of their value menu burger. Or is eating less of what's available not an actual option?
    I blame the children starving in Africa.

    That's what everyone's mother told them to get them to always eat everything on their plate, isn't it?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #179
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    So when someone hits clinical obesity then they are lazy? They weren't lazy on the way there?

    Hugs, Jeremy

  10. #180
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    McDonald's sells fruit and vegetable sides. Even salads. If someone can't afford that, surely they can eat only half of their value menu burger. Or is eating less of what's available not an actual option?
    If you're someone that's poor to the point of having little to no money to spend on food, you are not going to just eat "half a burger" to avoid being fat. These people don't have the time to focus on losing weight - that's the problem. People who are in the lowest social strata of our society are the ones who work full time at a grocery store and part time at another job and have a large family that they're trying to feed. Do you really think they're worried about their weight? They can't be - they don't have time to be.

    You might retort along the lines of "Well they should make time" or something to that effect, but you don't know what many of these people go through each and every day just to make it by. At the end of the day, if they go to a restaurant to eat a hamburger, they're not thinking "Well, I need to watch what I'm eating..." They don't have that luxury; they're worried about how they're going to pay for their rent and electricity even though their spouse just lost their job. And the hamburger becomes a momentary relief from the tensions that life brings to the table every day in their lives. If they had the money, they would have time to sit back and reflect on how eating a hamburger might not be the best option, and they should opt for the $4 salad over the $1 double cheeseburger.
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

    Fonewearl and proud of it!

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