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  1. #131
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    Regardless of what the statistics say, is it fair to destroy a 4-year-old's health/future/psyche? That was the point of the original post. Even if we accept everything you say as true, it seems that's all the more reason to make a concerted effort to prevent this from happening to the youngest members of our society. If their parents get their feelings hurt in the process, well that's just too damn bad.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    I call 'em as I see 'em.

    Also... you said you want to "show the world about this alarming trend" or whatever. Is this not something that the world is aware of? Why not make a thread about solutions instead of focusing on the problems?

    Perhaps, I'm misinterpreting your statement. Is eating less and exercising a secret? The solution is obvious. Why is it the job of healthy people to take care of the obese? Most obese people don't possess the drive to go through with it. Who's to blame for their weakness? Should someone hold their hand, and stop them from putting food in their mouth?

    Be accountable and take responsibility.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Neither of those stats I quoted said anything about obesity. They seemed to be indicate a lack of physical activity in the overall population, not just the obese.
    The whole page is regarding obesity as a chronic disease. Should "obese" be put into every single sentence to be relevant?


    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Excuse my language, but... how the hell did you get that out of what Heart just said?
    She stated only major impairment could qualify. That's only half right due to a loophole, and same goes for the UK.

  4. #134
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Do you struggle with anything? Anything someone else might say wasn't a good way to live? Take a minute to think of someone else saying you shouldn't be having any trouble with it.

  5. #135
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Perhaps, I'm misinterpreting your statement. Is eating less and exercising a secret? The solution is obvious. Why is it the job of healthy people to take care of the obese? Most obese people don't possess the drive to go through with it. Who's to blame for their weakness? Should someone hold their hand, and stop them from putting food in their mouth?

    Be accountable and take responsibility.
    You have narrowed the whole issue of obesity down to people putting food in their mouths when it is obviously so much more complex than that. You are disregarding the psychological side of the issue entirely, psychological barriers are very real, ask anyone with a strong phobia.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    The whole page is regarding obesity as a chronic disease. Should "obese" be put into every single sentence to be relevant?
    Are you not interested in accuracy? Whether those stats come from only obese people or the population as a whole matters a lot when it comes to drawing conclusions. Nothing on that page indicated that those statistics were drawn from just obese people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Do you struggle with anything? Anything someone else might say wasn't a good way to live? Take a minute to think of someone else saying you shouldn't be having any trouble with it.
    It should be easy for 010101010 to empathise with people that struggle with their weight. To be so cold, is not a good way to live.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  6. #136
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    What's with the water wings? Someone scared he's going to drown in a thickshake?

    His napkin bib isn't even tucked into his shirt, it's just plastered on with a puddle of grease.
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    You have narrowed the whole issue of obesity down to people putting food in their mouths when it is obviously so much more complex than that. You are disregarding the psychological side of the issue entirely, psychological barriers are very real, ask anyone with a strong phobia.

    Are you not interested in accuracy? Whether those stats come from only obese people or the population as a whole matters a lot when it comes to drawing conclusions. Nothing on that page indicated that those statistics were drawn from just obese people.

    It should be easy for 010101010 to empathise with people that struggle with their weight. To be so cold, is not a good way to live.
    Are you saying that eating less wouldn't actually help them lose weight? It really is that simple. If they seriously have no self control, they should be placed in a mental institution and put on a regulated feeding tube. Addicts are still responsible for the path they take.


    Look at the heading:
    Chronic Disease - Preventing Obesity and Chronic Diseases Through Good Nutrition and Physical Activity

    If you still can't see it, look at the pdf version: http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/publicati...df/obesity.pdf


    Having actually studied genetics in depth, I don't empathize with people that can prevent their issues. The only legitimate genetic exception is Prader-Willi Syndrome.

    What obesity really comes down to is depression, addiction to chem reactions that occur when overeating, lack of motivation, laziness, and placing the blame everywhere but themselves. People stop smoking, drinking, and taking drugs every single day. It takes willpower and hard work. Same should be applied to obesity.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    To be paid disability, they would have to have signifigant function reduction based on their muscle or skeletal complications and PROOF that they had this fuction reduction.
    This is the loophole I was referring to:


    Job applicants and employees need not actually be disabled to qualify for protection under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), the habilitation Act (RHA), and many state disability laws. A person may still be protected under the "regarded as disabled" or "perceived disability" definition of disability, if others in the workplace merely consider him or her to be disabled. The availability of perceived disability discrimination claims means that the words and actions of employers, depending on what they manifest about an employer's perceptions, may convert an individual who is not covered under the disability laws into one who is covered.

    In recent years there has been a rise in the number of perceived disability discrimination claims. (1) This is particularly true in regard to perceived disability claims brought by overweight job applicants and employees. No doubt, the growing "obesity crisis" and greater awareness of potential rights among overweight individuals are contributing to the growth in these types of claims. In addition, it appears that developments in the law that make it increasingly difficult for plaintiffs to establish obesity-related actual disability claims are leading more overweight job applicants and employees who feel unfairly treated by an employer to pursue perceived disability claims. Perceived disability claims have been described as "the most promising legal development for protection against obesity discrimination," (2) and it has been suggested that many overweight plaintiffs would be better off not pursuing actual disability claims, but instead file only perceived disability claims. (3) Our review of recent cases indicates both that it is not unusual for overweight plaintiffs to follow this strategy (i.e., filing only a perceived disability claim), and that compared to obesity-related actual disability claims, plaintiffs are experiencing greater success with perceived discrimination claims in opposing employers' summary judgment motions and getting to trial.

    The foreseeable continued growth in obesity-related perceived disability claims, combined with the fact that employer conduct can play a critical role in the determination of whether an overweight individual is considered to have a perceived disability, make it important for employment lawyers and human resource (HR) professionals to have a thorough understanding of obesity-related perceived disability claims. What employer actions are likely to contribute to obesity-related perceived disability claims? What legal defenses have been most successful? These and related questions are addressed in the three sections of this article. The first section focuses on federal law, discussing evolving legal standards, and identifying specific evidence that has been found to either support or refute obesity-related perceived disability claims. The second section briefly discusses the key ways in which some state disability laws provide overweight employees greater protection against discrimination based on perceived disability than does the federal law. The final section provides practical guidance that should help employers avoid the risk of litigation involving the growing number of overweight employees, and assist them in assessing the merit of obesity-related perceived discrimination claims if they arise.

    OBESITY-RELATED PERCEIVED DISABILITY CLAIMS UNDER FEDERAL LAW

    The RHA prohibits employment discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities by holders of government contracts, recipients of federal grants, and government agencies and departments. The ADA extends this prohibition to private employers and state and local entities. Because the RHA and ADA have parallel definitions of "disability," cases decided under either act are expected to apply to claims brought under the other. (4) The two acts are discussed together in the following sections.

    Definitions of "Disability"

    The ADA and RHA prohibit covered employers from discriminating against persons with a "disability," defined as follows:

    1. A person with a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more of the individual's major life activities;

    2. A person with a record of such impairment; or

    3. A person who is regarded as having such impairment. (5)

    To qualify as a member of a protected class, an individual must show that he or she meets the criteria for at least one of these definitions of disability. The first definition focuses on the individual's objective condition and will be referred to as an "actual disability." The second definition simply provides protection for past actual disabilities. The third "regarded as" definition of disability is qualitatively different from the first two in that, rather than focusing on the individual's actual physical or mental condition, it focuses on an employer's perceptions of the individual and how he or she is treated in the workplace. Accordingly, a condition meeting the third definition is referred to as a "perceived disability." The criteria for what constitutes an actual obesity-related disability is relevant to the determination of whether an employer perceived an individual as being disabled within the meaning of the federal disability laws. Therefore, although the focus of this article is obesity-related perceived disabilities, we begin by discussing the proof required to establish an obesity-related actual disability.

    Obesity-Related Actual Disability

    Neither the ADA nor the RHA specifically mention whether obesity may be an actual disability. However, EEOC regulations implementing the ADA specifically exclude height or weight that is within the "normal" range and not the result of a physiological disorder, (6) and judicial decisions have consistently reflected the regulation's view that obesity will be considered a covered disability only in "rare circumstances." (7) Plaintiffs have succeeded in establishing obesity as a covered actual disability only where they have been able to prove: (1) they are either morbidly obese (e.g., 100 percent over their ideal weight) or suffering from obesity that is a symptom of a physiological condition (e.g., due to a thyroid condition); and (2) their obesity, or obesity-related condition(s), substantially limits one or more major life activities (8) (e.g., walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, or working). (9)

    Three points regarding the legal standards for an obesity-related actual disability claim warrant emphasis. First, while the EEOC guidelines and some lower courts consider morbid obesity by itself an impairment under the law, ultimately, even morbidly obese plaintiffs (or those who can demonstrate a physiological cause for their obesity) must be able to establish that their obesity substantially limits one or more major life activities. (10) Thus while being morbidly obese makes it easier for a plaintiff to establish an actual disability, it is not enough to prevail.

    Second, very few individuals who experience weight-related discrimination in the workplace are able to meet the legal standards for establishing an obesity-related actual disability. While overall, approximately 31 percent of the adults in the United States are obese, less than five percent of the adult population is morbidly obese.

    (11) The vast majority of obese Americans would have to prove that their weight has a physiological cause in order to establish an actual disability under the ADA or RHA. This is not an easy task, as although the medical community considers obesity to be the result of physiological, psychological, and environmental factors, the exact causes of obesity are neither fully understood nor widely agreed upon.

    (12) Estimates of the percentage of people whose obesity is explained by physiological causes also vary, with some estimates placing it as low as five percent.

    (13) Because experts disagree about the precise cause or causes of obesity, plaintiffs will have a difficult time discharging their burden of proving a physiological cause for their condition. In the reported cases, very few plaintiffs have even attempted to offer evidence of a physiological cause for their obesity.
    Obesity-related "perceived disability" claims: legal standards and human resource implications. (22-MAR-07) Employee Relations Law Journal

  9. #139
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Are you saying that eating less wouldn't actually help them lose weight? It really is that simple.
    That is a small part of a much more complex problem.

    So no one ever put irrelevant information under the wrong heading before?

    • # Despite the proven benefits of physical activity, less than half of American adults in 2007 engaged in enough physical activity to provide health benefits.
    • # In 2007, 65% of young people in grades 912 did not get the recommended amount of physical activity; 35% watched television for 3 or more hours on the average school day.
    These stats are clearly for the overall population and are not specific to obese people. Unless all american adults are obese and all young people in grades 9-12 are as well.


    Having actually studied genetics in depth, I don't empathize with people that can prevent their issues. The only legitimate genetic exception is Prader-Willi Syndrome.
    Well people with that condition are still being lumped together into your wild generalisations, but I suppose you don't care.

    What obesity really comes down to is depression, addiction to chem reactions that occur when overeating, lack of motivation, laziness, and placing the blame everywhere but themselves.
    Yes exactly, so you agree it's not as simple as overeating, you've mentioned a variety of factors that come into play and I bet there are countless more you haven't thought of either. You don't treat depression by saying "JUST BE HAPPY!" and you don't treat obesity by saying "JUST EAT LESS!". I'm sure you sleep soundly at night knowing that all the fat people are lazy and you are so much better and more deserving than them.

    People stop smoking, drinking, and taking drugs every single day. It takes willpower and hard work. Same should be applied to obesity.
    I suppose the difference is, I realise people make mistakes and are willing to give them second chances.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  10. #140
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post

    Having actually studied genetics in depth, I don't empathize with people that can prevent their issues. The only legitimate genetic exception is Prader-Willi Syndrome.

    What obesity really comes down to is depression, addiction to chem reactions that occur when overeating, lack of motivation, laziness, and placing the blame everywhere but themselves. People stop smoking, drinking, and taking drugs every single day. It takes willpower and hard work. Same should be applied to obesity.
    I think it is mostly a willpower thing, however not everyone has it. They are made differently, or mentally/psychologically damaged in some way.

    I noticed a few pages back someone else suggest depression as a reason and you replied that they should be on meds or getting help in order to change those things.

    Medication doesn't truly work, it doesn't ever completely remove the scars, the scars themselves make willpower seem pointless since the person in question is merely going round and round in circles in their head.

    The hopeless have no room for willpower in that state of mind.

    Of course I am not recommending that people shouldn't try to be healthy, just that with some judgement need not be so clear cut.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

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