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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    If the parents consented for their 11 year old, the 11 year old wasn't bothered by it, and the suitor is of course happy, would this be allowed?
    I would allow it, unless there was empirical evidence to show that the union was harmful.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Until someone else picks up my debate on the procedure/manner this was carried out, I'll give this some attention.

    If the parents consented for their 11 year old, the 11 year old wasn't bothered by it, and the suitor is of course happy, would this be allowed?
    Again, no, essentially for this reason:

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    I would oppose the marriage on the grounds that the 13 year old, in all probability, is not fit to make that decision for herself yet.
    I don't even see how it's related to the issue at hand. On one case, we're talking about two consenting adults who are in love getting married. On the other hand, we have someone who has barely even started puberty (if they have at all) getting married, someone who will be very different and have very different thoughts and opinions in about seven years. There's still a LOT of development going on in the brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    13-year-olds used to be able to marry. Has their mental maturity/development rate changed in the last 100 years?

    And okay, setting that aside, if 5 women, 3 men and I all are in love with each other, shouldn't we be able to have a group marriage?
    No. If that were the case, you could also argue that because I could have held a slave 150 years ago, it is the African Americans who changed. It's not, we've just gotten better at recognizing human rights.

    And yes, I don't see why not, although particular attention will have to be paid to the situation if children are to be involved.

  3. #33
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Does that mean the state should of picked the other person going against what the people voted for?
    Should which state have picked which other person? What are talking about here?


    Learn from your mistakes, if there is nothing to learn from the action, then the consequences are small or irrelevant (or the people are blind).

    Again though (funny that a libertarian is arguing against popular opinion), for better or worse, we live in a democracy, where popular vote that goes well and beyond 70% should be respected.
    Why is that funny? The United States is a republic, not a pure democracy. We have a constitution in place to constrain all branches of government and the voting public from taking too much power.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    The constitution is famous for how vague it is, there isn't a dividing line. Perhaps you can give me the line which specifies such that doesnít allow interpretation.
    That is why we have courts. Interpretation is always necessary. Fairness and consistency is the ultimate criteria.

  5. #35
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    I saw your post:
    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    You can't ban the supreme court of Iowa; it exists solely for that reason, to debate laws and actions in Iowa.

    Though as of late the judicial branch is acting more like legislators, than as judges, legislative judges are a mockery to democracy

    So there isn't anything the people could have done about it.
    and didn't understand what it had to do with my post, to which you were replying. Let me try to rephrase again what I meant. The voters should have seen some procedural surprise like this coming and changed the procedure itself to avoid it ever coming, if that's what they wanted. They're in a funny situation now, but they could have done something about it before the case came up.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    I don't even see how it's related to the issue at hand. On one case, we're talking about two consenting adults who are in love getting married. On the other hand, we have someone who has barely even started puberty (if they have at all) getting married, someone who will be very different and have very different thoughts and opinions in about seven years.
    That was the point, that the two situations are not analogous.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    That was the point, that the two situations are not analogous.
    Oh yeah, I know, I wasn't replying to you there, I was using your quote as an addition to my reply to cogdecree. I couldn't have put it better myself.

  8. #38
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    I would allow it, unless there was empirical evidence to show that the union was harmful.
    That's all I was curious about, thanks. Though it seems this issue isn't unanimous.

  9. #39
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    Again, no, essentially for this reason:



    I don't even see how it's related to the issue at hand. On one case, we're talking about two consenting adults who are in love getting married. On the other hand, we have someone who has barely even started puberty (if they have at all) getting married, someone who will be very different and have very different thoughts and opinions in about seven years. There's still a LOT of development going on in the brain.



    No. If that were the case, you could also argue that because I could have held a slave 150 years ago, it is the African Americans who changed. It's not, we've just gotten better at recognizing human rights.

    And yes, I don't see why not, although particular attention will have to be paid to the situation if children are to be involved.

    Perhaps we should bring up
    "I don't even see how it's related to the issue at hand"

    human cognative development is seperate than human rights.

  10. #40
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    That is why we have courts. Interpretation is always necessary. Fairness and consistency is the ultimate criteria.
    Again I agree, now, I was asking what % what qualities is fair and should be consistant, within your interpretation.

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