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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jeremy's Avatar
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    I'm glad. Maybe the rest will catch up someday.
    "Can you set me free from this dark inner world? Save me now, last beats in the soul.."

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  2. #12
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    That's up to the citizens of Iowa, isn't it? The rules of the procedure are written in their constitution, and the issue is with that. What I mean is that if they hadn't wanted something like this to happen, they should have changed the procedure described in their constitution (perhaps many of them are wishing that they had).

    I am talking about the procedure itself, instead of this specific case, because it should be consistent across all cases. The basis is "no exceptions to the law."
    You can't ban the supreme court of Iowa; it exists solely for that reason, to debate laws and actions in Iowa.

    Though as of late the judicial branch is acting more like legislators, than as judges, legislative judges are a mockery to democracy

    So there isn't anything the people could have done about it.

  3. #13
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    It's only a matter of time until gay-marriage is allowed everywhere... I think that's what God is waiting for to happen before he starts the Rapture, just so it will be easier to identify the people that won't be getting into Heaven.
    There is no Rapture.

  4. #14
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Popular opinion is never a good barometer for the "right" answer, only the popular answer. People are idiots, have you seen the latest statistics on general scientific knowledge of the country?

    Honestly it pains me when I think that everyone is allowed to vote. They shouldn't be able to. I don't even think I should be able to.

    Anyways, good for Iowa. I think New England is using this as initiative to get something done as well.
    Sure I'll agree tht popular opinion isn't always the right answer, but now this begs the question whether the states have the right answer.

    Don't you think within a democracy the people should be allowed to voice and vote their way, and A) learn from the consequences, or B) it was the right choice.

    What I am seeing here is individual opinion overriding the masses. Placing party above country.

    I am sure a stink would be made if some fundamental christian tried to make abortion illegal by overturning popular vote because in his view, its murdering chidlren, which if that is the belief, that would be something that is very emotional about.

    He believes he's right, and the public doesn't know what their doing...

    As I said, you guys place party over country.

  5. #15
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    Religion is the primary reason for being against gay marriages. Constitutionally based challenges will eventually correct the other states.

  6. #16
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Sure I'll agree tht popular opinion isn't always the right answer, but now this begs the question whether the states have the right answer?

    Don't you think within a democracy the people should be allowed to voice and vote their way, and A) learn from the consequences B) it was the right choice.

    What I am seeing here is individual opinion overriding the masses. Placing party above country.

    I am sure a stink would be made if some fundamental christian tried to make abortion illegal by overturning popular vote because in his view, its murdering chidlren, which if that is the belief, that would be something that is very emotional about.

    He believes he's right, and the public doesn't know what their doing...

    As I said, you guys place party over country.

    No one ever took a popular vote on abortion. And sometimes the masses are horribly, horribly wrong. George W. Bush was at 90% approval rating in October 2001.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #17
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No one ever took a popular vote on abortion. And sometimes the masses are horribly, horribly wrong. George W. Bush was at 90% approval rating in October 2001.
    Does that mean the state should of picked the other person going against what the people voted for?

    Learn from your mistakes, if there is nothing to learn from the action, then the consequences are small or irrelevant (or the people are blind).

    Again though (funny that a libertarian is arguing against popular opinion), for better or worse, we live in a democracy, where popular vote that goes well and beyond 70% should be respected.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Don't you think within a democracy the people should be allowed to voice and vote their way, and A) learn from the consequences, or B) it was the right choice.
    A democracy must protect the rights of the minority also. This is only logical. A system that doesn't do this would be prone to collapse into civil war. Picture a scenario where 51 percent voted to deprive all rights to the other 49.

  9. #19
    Lasting_Pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Religion is the primary reason for being against gay marriages. Constitutionally based challenges will eventually correct the other states.
    Sadly that is the only strong defense they have. Even though I am religious, I cannot be a advocate of the religious views when I see people who are sincerely in love trying to get married.

  10. #20
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    A democracy must protect the rights of the minority also. This is only logical. A system that doesn't do this would be prone to collapse into civil war. Picture a scenario where 51 percent voted to deprive all rights to the other 49.
    Except we are talking about large % 70+.

    And if 70%+ vote a certain way, and if it was terrible wrong, actions would be taken to correct such, though legislation or other means.

    For your point to be considered bad or good, we would need to know the actually size of the minoritiy we are talking about. (again where are still talking about in general here)There are many views within the country, should all of them be expressed, no matter the size? (an easy reponse to this part would be a more limiting scope where such is allowed, ex gay marrige doesn't hurt anyone, so it should be legal etc)

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