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  1. #11
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I hope so. I fear we might not be there when both Croatia and France will merge, but as one of my fellow acquaintance said (Finkielkraut), "Europe is the next evolution of mankind!".
    Just for the record France announced that it will return to the duties In NATO. While Croatia become a member 2 days ago.
    I know that NATO in not equall Europe But from military perspective we are one form this point.



    In my opinion, the question is not to make a poliical entity that could rival with the US. They are our friends, our philosophical and political brethren, not our competitors. So, it's rather when the US would integrate into the UE, and why. When our family could reunite, at last.
    We are the Western world. We are the heirs of the Enlightenment age.

    And the goal is to unite mankind.
    I have on purpose made this question in more controversional form.
    The real question is : Can Europe survive if US is not superpower anymore?


    Maybe, but you shouldn't say that too loud, especially the "atheistic" word.
    But we understand each other.
    I am not talking about creating the society of atheists as a part of some great plan. It is just that the modern Europe is the most atheistic society in the world.

    Well, we have to prove whether "old nations" can unite despite centuries of wars and hatred, under a common ideal. And those ideals are democracy, human rights, and the end of ethnic and cultural discriminations.

    We have to know if we can create a postmodern nation, something way ahead our traditional nation-states.

    Are we the future? Can we believe enough in ourselves?
    The time will tell. But I think that potential exists.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Will it ever become fully united?
    I think necessity will do the trick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Does it have the strenght to replace US if things there go very bad?
    In a "world police" sense? Or economically? Or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Will it become first democratic and atheistic entity in history.
    The first atheistic entity in history? What do you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What is the role of this continent in the modern world?
    Proving that you can keep your cultural identity while teamworking perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What do you think it will happen to his continent in the future?
    I think it's likely that the EU will govern itself more and more as a country as time goes by.

  3. #13
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I also think that necessity will do the trick here.

    As for replacing US I was thinking in way that EU becomes clearly stronger then the US.
    However, the use of this potential power is up to a debate.


    As for Atheism, the question is : Will Atheism become a public mainstream all over the continent. Simply because people will stop believing into things or they will be very liberal in understanding of their religion.

    To be honest I think that we are not that far from this as an outcome.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I will not create too big OP on purpose.


    Will it ever become fully united?
    Does it have the strenght to replace US if things there go very bad?
    Will it become first democratic and atheistic entity in history.
    What is the role of this continent in the modern world?



    What do you think it will happen to his continent in the future?
    On being united: Hard to say. I think it's possible, but I wouldn't give it that much of a chance.

    On replacing the US: I don't think Europe will "overcome" the US as much as possibly outlast the US. Our culture and values are leading us to disaster right now.

    On democracy and atheism: Damned if I know.

    The role of Europe: An old crippled man in a rocking chair holding a sawed off shotgun. He's also incredibly wealthy, but wishes to be buried with the money.

  5. #15
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Can Europe survive if US is not superpower anymore?
    As said, just my point of view which is remarkably similar. But heh, I'm a european. :p

    There will most likely be a LOT of changes. If the US dissappears from the map overnight, we might be in for a rough time. If it's a gradual process, I'm sure Europe would shift its resources into trying to become a superpower, to defend itself. I believe it's possible to become one in the time of a single generation, if it was neccesary.

    Luckily it isn't and I hope it will never be neccesary.


    Atheism is becoming a bigger stream in modern society. But I doubt religion will ever loose it from Atheism. Many, many people really feel they need religion in their life. Some form of assurance that atheism might not bring to them. Religions itself may become more and more lenient. Upholding morals and values and belief in a greater being and an afterlife that judges you on the life you lived. I'm an atheist, but find religion a good thing for those reasons.

  6. #16
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post

    On replacing the US: I don't think Europe will "overcome" the US as much as possibly outlast the US. Our culture and values are leading us to disaster right now.
    That is exactly why I ask. Since this scenario is actually realistic. I am not saying that this is what will happen but it is possible to have this outcome.

  7. #17
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    On replacing the US: I don't think Europe will "overcome" the US as much as possibly outlast the US. Our culture and values are leading us to disaster right now.
    Could you be more specific? The economic crisis, by itself, is only a severe short-term problem (though overreactions will probably cause severe long-term problems). If Europe can't even sustain its numbers of economically productive members of the population while at the same time vastly increasing its proportion of politically empowered dependents (i.e. old people), how can it outlast the United States?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Despite all the aggravation they give us, they are closer to being our friends than most countries of the world.
    That is so true. Next to China. They need us, and we need them.

  9. #19
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Could you be more specific? The economic crisis, by itself, is only a severe short-term problem (though overreactions will probably cause severe long-term problems). If Europe can't even sustain its numbers of economically productive members of the population while at the same time vastly increasing its proportion of politically empowered dependents (i.e. old people), how can it outlast the United States?
    I have one idea that can be considered to be a heresy.

    Personally I think that currect economic models will not work in Europe because of old population.

    But in the modern world this could be more of a blessing then a curse.
    That is because modern ways of production things doesn't require alot of people.
    What means that Europe will be able to modernize its intustry to a level that the need for human intervention is low. It is a fact that modern machines can make products that have higher quality then products that are made by humans. Since we already have natural tendency towards socialism it should not be too hard to create this system.
    Especially since it will be obvious that this could be the only way out.
    I am not saying that this will be the end of free market but the entire system will work differently then now.
    European model is that people should not work too much and too hard so this in a way will be the natural continuation of this ideas.


    I think that the future of this continents lies in unconventional approaches.
    On the opposite there will not be much that will left.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    That is exactly why I ask. Since this scenario is actually realistic. I am not saying that this is what will happen but it is possible to have this outcome.
    Well, the thing with Europe is that they've been around for a while, and are used to going through difficult times. I don't know whether they would or wouldn't succeed, but I think they have a better chance at handling it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Could you be more specific? The economic crisis, by itself, is only a severe short-term problem (though overreactions will probably cause severe long-term problems). If Europe can't even sustain its numbers of economically productive members of the population while at the same time vastly increasing its proportion of politically empowered dependents (i.e. old people), how can it outlast the United States?
    I'm thinking more about a scenario in which America runs itself into the ground rather than things progressing naturally and Europe just happening to come out in the lead. For example, certain ingrained attitudes, such as how we tend to try and prevent changes rather than adapt to them, leading us to some sort of social breakdown.

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