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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The OIC [Organisation of the Islamic Conference - consisting of 57 Islamist states] doesn't oppose the UDHR [Universal Declaration of Human Rights] because of Western hypocrisy, it opposes it because they know that the notions of religious freedom, free speech, and equality under the law are in direct conflict with orthodox Islam and its goddamn Shariah law.
    This is completely and unfortunately true.

  2. #62
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Sure, we can argue over the details, but finally, it is a question of ethos.

    We have rejected, as a nation, the ethos of gun culture.

    We don't share, and don't want to share, your gun ethos.

    We banned guns after a gun massacre at Port Arthur in Tasmania with the explicit purpose of avoiding any further gun massacres.

    And so far it has worked in that we have had no further gun massacres.

    But the national decision we have made is at the gut level - we reject guns.

    We do recognise this is a rejection of your gun ethos and your gun culture - however we are an independent sovereign nation and we make our own decisions.

    And I am sure you can accept that.

    And anyway, we are very happy with the decision we have made.

    And sure, you can keep your guns, but don't want 'em.

    I think it's more that you (and a political majority in your country circa 1996) have rejected the gun ethos.

    By the way, I don't own a gun, never have and don't plan on it. But I do feel safer living in a city where it's illegal to be a homeowner and NOT own a gun (Kennesaw, GA). Guess what city has the lowest home break-in rate in the state, and one of the top 10 lowest in the nation?

    I'm not asking you to accept guns as a positive thing, but as you said--the proof is in the pudding. What good is preventing gun massacres if the way you go about it actually results in more gun violence overall?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #63
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    LOl victor your claim is ridicules. No gun crimes in australia?, you know that claim is impossible to sustain.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  4. #64
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I don't post on this board to participate in flame wars. There are other ways for me to entertain myself. But you go on with your bad self, maestro politico.
    Then don't contradict your stance with your actions........problem solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Ok you need adjust the tin foil hat here...
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    That's a joke right? I know you are joking because... I get jokes.
    All Russia ever wanted was for everyone to get along peacefully.

    Anyway, people who worry about "Russia's secret plans" too much tend to have hypertension - which leads to unexpected (yet medically confirmed) fatal heart attacks.

    I'm just looking out for you, man. So make sure you get a lot of rest and don't talk about things that cause "hypertension".
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    lol, i guess your sarcasm detection is about as advanced as your knowledge of international politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I don't post on this board to participate in flame wars. There are other ways for me to entertain myself. But you go on with your bad self, maestro politico.
    Don't invite someone to play the game and then cry after, they might just take you up on the offer. You're a big boy now, with big boy rules. Yaddy yadda

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    LOl victor your claim is ridicules. No gun crimes in australia?, you know that claim is impossible to sustain.
    I don't know why you are saying this.

    I have never claimed there are no gun crimes in Oz.

    But I have and do claim there have been no gun massacres in Oz since the introduction of the gun laws.

    This is why the gun laws were introduced - to stop gun massacres - no one would expect them to stop gun crime.

    But I wonder why our laws are any of your business.

    In your country you have a truly intractable problem.

    But instead of trying to do something about it, you continue make false and ignorant accusations against us.

    I'm getting a little sick of it.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) Was algebra heavily influenced by an Indian bias? If a concept qualifies as a universal value, it dosn't matter where it originated, only whether its right.
    Is morality absolute? Determining 'right' is a little bit more concrete in algebra than dealing with morality, ethics and by extension, human rights......I'm not seeing the connection of your analogy.

    Most critics of the UDHR come from the stance of cultural relativism and those that are proponents of "Asian" values (Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Confucian, Islam). There's a central focus of the rights of the individual NOT community (relations of human not only with one another, but, with its society at large, duties NOT being severed from society at large, proposing a marriage between individualism and collectivism). UDHR is highly entrenched within radical individualism (is this right or wrong? Maybe you can come up with a THE RIGHT justification through some kind of quadratic equation(s)? )

    2.) What country/society hasn't violated the ostensible values on which its identity and legitimacy are based?
    Then why are we shocked and outraged when THIS country (OP discussion) does it?

    3.) You must not take any person, organization, or entity very seriously...
    True, only algebra.

    The OIC dosn't oppose the UDHR because of Western hypocrisy, it opposes it because they know that the notions of religious freedom, free speech, and equality under the law are in direct conflict with orthodox Islam and its goddamn Shariah law.
    But, in order for this line of thought to hold true, we must look at WHY this radicalism rose? If it came out of orthodox Islam and its rules/laws, we should have seen these practices constantly...throughout. But, we do not... as I discussed earlier w/ Kyuuie in this thread, regarding the prolific humanitarian history of Islam.

    Don't you question why they're so hell-bent on going so extreme with their religious laws NOW, versus, rest of Islamic history? I smell some kind of socio-cultural inter-play and reactionary uprising. But, it very well may be my:
    scapegoats and strawmen,
    and give some specific examples as to why you are apparently opposed to the UDHR?
    You infer too much, young grasshopper....what makes you think I (personally) am opposed to the UDHR?

    Hint: separate yourself/myself/ourselves from discussions of ideas...and you'll fare much better.

    Yours, in contemplation,
    Yoda

  7. #67
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    #Qre:us: I dont how you get your skewered ideas. But no one will attack the USA in the near-future. The worst that can happen are political tensions and reprecussions. But full fledged wars , with the pre-text of old unsettled scores are neigh impossible to happen, unless there was a major factor, like a giant screw up, which is highly unlikely, even with the political incompetence of contemporary times.

    I almost missed ya there, addressing me. Don't be shy, quote me! I did reiterate a few times, they're biding their time, and will only act when the opportunity is right. I agree, no one will rock the boat, esp. at a time of global economic instability/crisis, aside from some of the Middle-Eastern countries who've started (who I also already commented that they've gone about it prematurely, and haphazardly with regards to their reactionary stance towards USA & Co.). But...if a full-fledged war was underway, because certain key nations for whatever reason, decided that they'd take it to the level of war, like WWIII, say (I cannot predict WHY this war will happen, or when, Nostradamus isn't returning my calls). All I can say is that if/when we're in that state, if we haven't blown up the whole planet already, the siding with one nation to another will play out the way my skewed vision forsees. With USA & Co. backed into the their own corner, against the rest of the world.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post

    The essence of liberal democracy is the limitation of power.
    It thinks, however, it is not. Just like communism, socialism....the real application of liberal demoncracy from theory to practice will invariably result in a little group actually having the power, as they are the 'representative' of the masses, since, there's no real 'majority rules' in terms of an absolute truth dictator. There's inherent issues with this, as well, if you take off the rose-coloured glasses.

    One advantage of liberal democracy is that it guarantees freedom of religion.
    And, freedom FROM religion (in theory)....however, in practice.....and on and on it goes.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    ....what makes you think I (personally) am opposed to the UDHR?
    Because you are making classic arguments against it.

    And this is not a trivial matter.

    The Islamists have declared war on civilization. And every day, across the world, they carry out acts of terrorism against civilians.

    But the most important part of their war is propaganda.

    And you are making propaganda for the Islamists.

    And I notice you are making propaganda behind a pseudonym and without giving your name or address.

    So either you are a game player or you are an Islamist.

    The first is repulsive and the second is dangerous.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    ....what makes you think I (personally) am opposed to the UDHR?
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Because you are making classic arguments against it.

    In grade 9, for an English class exercise on writing an argumentative essay, I handed in a paper supporting the Mafia because it promoted family values....what's your point?

    And I notice you are making propaganda behind a pseudonym and without giving your name or address.

    So either you are a game player or you are an Islamist.
    Yeah...that's it. Either of those two options. You're so perceptive.

    The first is repulsive and the second is dangerous.
    I find nonsensical, unordered, without-logical-deduction thinking, repulsive, as well. huh. Preferences, we all got 'em.

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